Stride Bruising

[lynn cates]

elementary

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"I wonder if she actually carried the packet up her sleeve (at her cuff), and the action of her falling to the round dislodged them into her hand?"

Well, actually it's worse than that. They were lodged between the thumb and forefinger (one report has thumb and fourth finger--but that makes no sense).

It's rather like taking a pinch of snuff. Now, if you are doing a forensics reconstruction and some toff is found dead with a pinch of snuff between thumb and forefinger, what may you induce? Put another way, reconstruct the scene, Watson. (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Huh?

Hello David. Thanks.

"(I've changed my mind and believe in grapes.)"

Pour quoi?

Cheers.
LC

[Observer]

Thanks for that, Observer! Yes, there are a number of jolly people amongst the serial killerīs ranks - but it is not the norm, Iīd say. And your example about Sutcliffe, though interesting, leads my thought more to an effort to obscure. What I am looking for is something different, a bit more explicite. Posting stuff to the police comes to mind, but Jackīs suggested placing of things and the torso killers distribution of body parts (among other places into the garden of a descendant of Mary Shelleyīs...!) is taking it a step or two further.

All the best,
Fisherman

Hi Fisherman

Yes, obviously a medical student descendant of Doctor Frankenstein was guilty of depositing the body part in Mary Shelley's relative's garden. Seriously though, medical student pranks cross my mind when I think of the Torso "killers" crimes.

Regards

Observer

[DVV]

Since I'm a big waffler on the grapes, I'd like to hear what convinced you, please.
curious

Hi Curious,

I'm trying to find a worse headache than cachous, that's why.

Beside, since these days people trust Mortimer more than Schwartz, it's fine to remind them that she had seen grapes.

Cheers

[Wickerman]

Hi Lynn.

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"You're assuming it was Jack?"

For the moment. If, however, it were some chap with a violent temper, what on earth would be the point of placing them between her fingers?

Cheers.
LC

I've no idea why people do the things they do. If "bad breath" was the message, stuffing the package in her mouth might have been more appropriate?

I wonder if she actually carried the packet up her sleeve (at her cuff), and the action of her falling to the round dislodged them into her hand?

[curious]

I understand, Lynn.
But who ate her grapes ?

(I've changed my mind and believe in grapes.)

Cheers mon cher

Since I'm a big waffler on the grapes, I'd like to hear what convinced you, please.

Thx,

curious

[DVV]

I understand, Lynn.
But who ate her grapes ?

(I've changed my mind and believe in grapes.)

Cheers mon cher

[lynn cates]

assumption

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"You're assuming it was Jack?"

For the moment. If, however, it were some chap with a violent temper, what on earth would be the point of placing them between her fingers?

Cheers.
LC

[DVV]

if it was 'Jack' then he got out of there immediately after slitting Stride's throat.
DRoy

Hi Roy

... that is certainly what he did. Schwartz or Pipeman could bump into a constable and bring him back.
I believe he was already gone when Diemshutz arrived.

Cheers

[Wickerman]

Hi Lynn.

Hello Caroline.

"If the killer placed the cachous between Stride's fingers himself, after cutting her throat (as a final insult, perhaps, implying she needed them to freshen her breath?), it would remove the problem of her holding onto them while she was being assaulted and/or killed."

Yet, no time to mutilate?

Cheers.
LC

You're assuming it was Jack?

[DRoy]

The problem with Liz's killer playing around is the position of the body. We know 'Jack' liked his victims on their back with their legs spread. Liz wasn't in that position, she was in a fetal position. It would have taken 'Jack' a couple seconds to move her into the position he wanted...yet he didn't. Why not? I would be a lot more convinced that Liz was murdered by 'Jack' if she were in that position.

Since she wasn't put on her back, legs spread or mutilated it's been suggested her killer was in a hurry to get out of there. So instead of 'playing' with the body like his previous and later victims, it's now being suggested he spent his valuable time 'playing' with her belongings?

Either Liz's murderer wasn't 'Jack' or if it was 'Jack' then he got out of there immediately after slitting Stride's throat.

DRoy

[Fisherman]

Hi Fisherman

Bold suggestions seem to be the norm around these parts! I'm thinking Dynamitards et al. Lets see what Dr Brown said regarding the thimble

"Both palms were upwards, the fingers slightly bent. A thimble was lying near."

So not such a huge jump to theorise that the thimble was placed on the finger. I'd assume the killer, (immediately after cutting her throat) went through her pockets. Thus if he placed the thimble on her finger it would have been shortly after this. So it's possible that he himself dislodged it as he carried out his mutilation.

Jack The Ripper, was not unique (should he have been guilty of these "funny little games" ) whilst carrying out his crimes. Gary Ridgeway, Peter Sutcliffe, to name but a few employed such tactics.

Regarding the torso murders, I quote Sutcliffe.

"I started sawing through her neck the blade
might have been blunt because I was getting nowhere at all so
I gave it up. If I had cut the head off I was going to leave it
somewhere else to make a big mystery out of it."

Games indeed Fisherman. It's a big game to a lot of these serial offenders.

"Catch me when you can Mishter Lusk"

Comes to mind

Regards

Observer

Thanks for that, Observer! Yes, there are a number of jolly people amongst the serial killerīs ranks - but it is not the norm, Iīd say. And your example about Sutcliffe, though interesting, leads my thought more to an effort to obscure. What I am looking for is something different, a bit more explicite. Posting stuff to the police comes to mind, but Jackīs suggested placing of things and the torso killers distribution of body parts (among other places into the garden of a descendant of Mary Shelleyīs...!) is taking it a step or two further.

All the best,
Fisherman

[Observer]

Hi Observer!

I think itīs a slightly bold suggestion that the thimble would have been on Kateīs finger and fallen off as she was tampered with. More likely, it was by her side from the outset.

But letīs assume that you are correct. Or letīs at least assume that the thimble was PLACED by her finger. And letīs assume that Chapmanīs gear was placed neatly by her body. And that Strideīs cachous was placed between her thumb and index finger. And, letīs not forget, that Kellyīs innards were placed between her feet (the liver) and as an improvised pillow, under her head.
Letīs assume that the killer was a "jolly" one, playing some sort of game if you will; how does that to your mind compare to the torso killer, distributing body parts, seemingly for jolly, playing some sort of game...?

Just thinking out loud here. It struck me that this may be some sort of a resemblance of a weird sense of humour or something such.

Thoughts?

The best,
Fisherman

Hi Fisherman

Bold suggestions seem to be the norm around these parts! I'm thinking Dynamitards et al. Lets see what Dr Brown said regarding the thimble

"Both palms were upwards, the fingers slightly bent. A thimble was lying near."

So not such a huge jump to theorise that the thimble was placed on the finger. I'd assume the killer, (immediately after cutting her throat) went through her pockets. Thus if he placed the thimble on her finger it would have been shortly after this. So it's possible that he himself dislodged it as he carried out his mutilation.

Jack The Ripper, was not unique (should he have been guilty of these "funny little games" ) whilst carrying out his crimes. Gary Ridgeway, Peter Sutcliffe, to name but a few employed such tactics.

Regarding the torso murders, I quote Sutcliffe.

"I started sawing through her neck the blade
might have been blunt because I was getting nowhere at all so
I gave it up. If I had cut the head off I was going to leave it
somewhere else to make a big mystery out of it."

Games indeed Fisherman. It's a big game to a lot of these serial offenders.

"Catch me when you can Mishter Lusk"

Comes to mind

Regards

Observer

[lynn cates]

I got got got got no time.

Hello Caroline.

"If the killer placed the cachous between Stride's fingers himself, after cutting her throat (as a final insult, perhaps, implying she needed them to freshen her breath?), it would remove the problem of her holding onto them while she was being assaulted and/or killed."

Yet, no time to mutilate?

Cheers.
LC

[curious4]

Seamstress?

If the killer placed the cachous between Stride's fingers himself, after cutting her throat (as a final insult, perhaps, implying she needed them to freshen her breath?), it would remove the problem of her holding onto them while she was being assaulted and/or killed.

Another 'what if?' just for jolly.

After all, Eddowes's killer took precious time to nick her eyelids and he could have left the thimble by her side, which I seem to recall was associated with prostitution in some way.

Love,

Caz
X

Hello Caz,

Are you perhaps referring to the fact that prostitutes were supposed to have called themselves euphemistically "seamstresses"?

Best wishes,
C4