Liz Stride Re-Enactment

[mariab]

Hi C.D.,
I totally think that escalation would happen in a domestic killing. And Stride was not beat up on the face at all, and didn't feature any other (minor) cuts than on her throat.
(The comment about the back yard with an angry boyfriend was a joke, by the way.)

[Ben]

Hi CD,

If the BS man had walked by and patted her on the butt is that an "attack?"

No, but what Schwartz described clearly was, which makes the suggested "two unrelated attackers" scenario seem very plausible indeed.

Best regards,
Ben

[mariab]

Perhaps you're right, Corey. (Oh my God! I'm a Ripperologist?!)
“SHOVED AGAINST A BRICK WALL AT THE RIPPER CONFERENCE (and nothing but a Tshirt to show for“.)
Makes a nice newspaper header, no? And we TOTALLY had the right wall for this, courtesy of Rob Clack.
I thought SPE is a newbie, though he says so himself...

[c.d.]

Hi Maria,

I don't think that escalation would necessarily happen. I just think it is much more probable.

c.d.

[mariab]

Hi C.D.,
completely agree with what you're saying, particularly with the missing escalation, which would necessarily happen in a domestic argument culminating in murder.
(Although your “why would she want to go back into the yard to "discuss" things“ part totally cracked me up. There's nothing like going into a back yard to discuss things with an angry boyfriend. We all know how that ends, and it ain't murder...!)

[corey123]

Hello Maria,

I hope you were not shoved against a brick wall at the Ripper conference, but I said as you have attended one, you are a ripperologist. I wouldn't say being a newbie would keep you from the title. I would say to obtain that title, you would have to have an acute interest in the studies, stick with it for a good period, and both learn and teach it. We are all students of ripperology. Even people like Stewart P Evans.

of coarse only if there has to be a title in the first place.

[c.d.]

Hi CD,

What Schwartz reported was a bodily assault by the broad-shouldered man on a defenceless woman whom he later identified as Stride. It was indisputably an "attack".

Best regards,
Ben

Hi Ben,

Well are all "attacks" equal? If the BS man had walked by and patted her on the butt is that an "attack?"

c.d.

[mariab]

To Corey:
Well, the “attack“ (shoved against the wall) didn't occur at a Ripperological conference! (Although that might have been fitting.) I'm not sure I'm a Ripperologist yet. Just a newbie with a severe addiction to casebook. But for the nuts part, I'll concede:100% guilty. That's why we all get on so well and got addicted to the site, I reckon.

[c.d.]

Hi Maria,

I don't like the domestic argument for several reasons. And by domestic, I mean Kidney or someone else that Liz may have been involved with or someone she met earlier in the evening. I am assuming, for the sake of argument, that her killer in the domestic scenario is motivated by anger. My first problem is how did she end up in the yard where she was found? If she is confronted by an angry man, does she really want to go back into the yard to "discuss" things? I wouldn't think so. On the other hand, if at the time, her killer appears calm and reasonable, why would there be a need to go into the yard? Wouldn't they simply have carried out their conversation on the street?

I also find it unusual that this great rage that fueled the killing is not preceded by an argument that anybody hears. Both Mrs. Diemschitz and Morris Eagle stated that even though there was singing, they were certain that they would have heard the sounds of an argument.

In a domestic scenario, we are forced to accept the zero to sixty rage of her killer. While possible, I think it is much more probable that there would have been a progression in the argument with Liz being slapped about. Yet, there were no signs of that. She was also killed with a single cut to the throat, no stab wounds anywhere else. But if great rage fueled this killing, wouldn't the killer have stabbed repeatedly in venting his anger? Are we to believe that after one cut, he was suddenly snapped back into rational behavior?

And finally, we have the police report stating that they couldn't find anyone in Liz's life with motivation for killing her. Yes, the police could have missed it, but the report is all we have.

Now I know that Fisherman and others have given plausible answers to all these questions but I don't by them especially since we have a killer, Jack (if you believe he killed Kate) doing his thing a short time and distance away.

c.d.

[Roy Corduroy]

Lynn, kindly send my appreciation to your wife for her portraying the era with appropriate dress.

As for you, Lynn, where is your cutaway jacket? Come to think of it, where is your pocket protector?

Roy Corduroy

[corey123]

Hello Maria,

Well lets just say your doomed. You have been to a rip conf, your a ripperologist. Just like all of us, nutty too. We all suffer from this disease that plagues us.

[mariab]

I think C.D. has been strongly influenced by what he witnessed on the street in D.C. a couple months ago (see "A modern day Liz").
To Corey:
I've never been to a shrink. And therein, probably, lies the problem.

[Ben]

Hi CD,

What Schwartz reported was a bodily assault by the broad-shouldered man on a defenceless woman whom he later identified as Stride. It was indisputably an "attack".

Best regards,
Ben

[corey123]

Hello Maria,

Indeed. The price is so high because no doctor wants a ripperologist as a patient.

[c.d.]

[QUOTE=Ben;153759]If Schwartz wasn't lying, we may consider it a near certainty that she was killed by the broad-shouldered man.

I don't get involved in Stride threads very regularly as I have tended to remain "on the fence" regarding most issues, acknowledging the merit in most arguments, both against and in favour of Stride as a ripper victim. The only scenario that I continue to resist very strongly is the idea that Stride was attacked by two successive, yet entirely separate individuals at the same location and in a very short space of time. It posits the existence of a ludicrous coincidence, and it really isn't needed to explain the presence of cachous in Stride's hand.

Hi Ben,

As long as you (not you personally) insist on calling what the BS man did an "attack" as opposed to an occupational hazard and fail to take into account the circumstances, i.e., a single woman standing by herself late at night as opposed to being in a group of churchgoers on a Sunday afternoon,then you are almost forced to reach that conlusion. But you also have to dismiss the very possible idea that the BS man simply cursed her out and went on his way.

c.d.