A Modern Day BS Man/Liz Encounter

[The Good Michael]

#2 The anarchists were, by and large, not violent--in spite of their cornball rhetoric.

Cornball rhetoric? These folks helped to create a better world in the west through their organizational skill, unification, work ethic, education, and dream of a better life. If not for them, my family going to America may have faced very real and immense problems.

I also imagine that they could be as hostile as anyone. Young men have that capacity, especially when they are fighting for change. The police were scared of their organization, as was the Anglo-Jewish population.


Mike

[mariab]

Actually I agree with everything Fleetwood Mac said. Everything! (On post #191.)

Lynn, the Stride slaying doesn't give the impression of a lovers' spat in the least. If it didn't have all the marks of a Ripper slaying, interrupted, one might be enticed to think “pimp kill“. But not domestic.
Lynn Cates wrote:
Hello Maria. Yes, Casebook provides a nice diversion when a schedule is full to overflowing. That is why I'm here--too many classes to teach!
You might buy a copy of Evans and Skinner's Ultimate Companion. It makes life much easier.
Wow, it's good to hear that other overwhelmed people use casebook as an escapist's tool to evade work overload too! Unfortunately the time spent away from work comes back to haunt one, I'm afraid... I currently need to be working on 5 different projects, the first of which requires printing out and filling out DOZENS and DOZENS of pages of silly legal documents (pertaining to getting some money from the state and stuff). I might start with it later this evening, so that it might be done at some point next week. The other projects, pertaining to research, are less unpleasant, but at least as messed up as the witnesses' statements for the night of September 30th. (My, oh my! Am I starting to talk like a Ripperologist?!) Anyway, I'm planning to chill for still a few more hours, then to sleep a bit, and then, much later, back to the realities of life.
Oh, and as for The Ultimate, it just got here (ordered from the States) a week ago or so, and I haven't had time to even touch it yet. I'm about to finish Paley, and then at some point I might start Sugden, although I'm not sure it'll be manageable, with the full workload I'm facing in the entire next week. But I might take Sugden along to Paris. (Doesn't this almost sound romantic?!)
Nice escape from preparing your classes for you too, Mr Professor, and

[mariab]

I agree with The Good Michael here! (Altough, pertaining to “organizational skill“, I have my doubts...)
Cornball rhetoric? Maybe Cornwell rhetoric!

[The Good Michael]

Maria,

Newsletters, meetings, and recruitment. That's far more than I can do.

Cheers,

Mike

[mariab]

The Good Michael wrote:
Maria,
Newsletters, meetings, and recruitment. That's far more than I can do.
Wow, look, another one! Ain't life grant? But the only approach that's ever worked for me is, to procrastinate a bit if one can, just to get it out of one's system, then to just go through it until it's done. And at some point it's done, and off one's back.

[Fleetwood Mac]

So, now what? Well, I happened to read chapter 16 of Evans and Skinner's Ultimate Companion. A chap from Austria, claiming to be a socialist, talked in terms of one who wished to get the club closed down. (His name? Stammer--alias John Kelly.)

Now, indeed, this informant had already been discredited by the Austrian police and later by SY. But was his story made up of whole cloth? Did it contain a fundamentum in re?

I then began to read that the Socialists themselves claimed they were beset by police spies and agents provocateurs. (See my Kaufmann thread.)

What better way to get the club closed down than to have the police suspect them of harbouring a murderer?

Cheers.
LC

Lynn.....the establishment's view that anarchists were a threat to English values.....is on record.......various sources. They would certainly have kept an eye on them.

But......if the idea was to understand what they were upto......then surely the better bet was to keep the club in business knowing full well it was a ready made source of information. Any informant would have had instructions....and those would have been to provide information as opposed to send these people underground and render the job of watching them infinitely more tricky.

Which comes back to my theory that any cover up would have been due to a suspicion that the club may have been closed down rather than a determined effort to have the club closed down.

In terms of how Jackie boy left......it could be that he was disturbed by a club member at 12.45ish and left before Mortimer arrived at the doorstep.....i.e. the measured heavy tramp beng the killer as opposed to PC Smith.

[lynn cates]

rhetoric

Hello Michael and Maria. To get a feel for the anarchists and socialists and their rhetoric, you might try these sites.

http://www.iisg.nl/index.php

http://www.marxists.org/

http://libcom.org/library/

You might also read Butterworth, Rocker or Fishman.

To take a quick example of their rhetoric and its effect, Prince Pyotr Kropotkin could not give a speech that a simple worker could understand. The worker would take off his flat cap, scratch his head and muse, “’Ere now, what’s this bloke talkin’ about?”

But the simplest way to understand their rhetoric is to watch “The Life of Brian” again. Let John Cleese explain.

Cheers.
LC

[The Good Michael]

Lynn,

Read Fishman. Love the anarchists. Without them there would have been no labor unions.

Mike

[c.d.]

Hi Lynn,

Even if we assume for the sake of argument that Liz was in a bad place for soliciting, what is her reaction if the customer approached her? Is she going to turn down an easy chance to make money?

I know that you don't like the idea of Liz deciding to make the best of a bad evening by deciding to solicit but what actually prevents her from doing so? It's not like she was a street mime who needed time and a place to paint her face white. Nor was she a welder who needed to have her welding tools with her in order to engage in her given profession. It seems to me like she had everything that she needed with her.

c.d.

[mariab]

Lynn Cates wrote:
To take a quick example of their rhetoric and its effect, Prince Pyotr Kropotkin could not give a speech that a simple worker could understand. The worker would take off his flat cap, scratch his head and muse, “’Ere now, what’s this bloke talkin’ about?”
As it happens, I happen to have heard of that little anecdote with Kropotkin. It's even more relevant in Russian, where intellectual, fine speak and peasant speak were almost 2 different tongues. The exact thing happened in Egypt in the beginning of the 20th century, when the intelligentsia and some European socialists tried to organize a national socialist party, but their manner of speak was totally unintelligible to the Arab workers/porters/fishers.
I think that Lynn was criticizing just the rhetoric and The Good Michael thought (as did I) that also the content was been criticized.

[lynn cates]

open for business

Hello Mac.

"But......if the idea was to understand what they were up to......then surely the better bet was to keep the club in business knowing full well it was a ready made source of information."

From the point of view of SY? Not at all unlikely. Oh dear, I hope I didn't sound like I thought SY was trying to close them down? Not a bit of it! But the European police plainly did. (See my Kaufmann thread.)

"Which comes back to my theory that any cover up would have been due to a suspicion that the club may have been closed down rather than a determined effort to have the club closed down."

The club felt under pressure from:

1. the police (rightly or wrongly)
2. Adler and Anglo-Jewry
3. factions among their own kind.

A cover up would have been an instinctive reaction. IF there was a determined effort to shut down the club, it would have come from a police (European) spy. (Again, there is an excellent piece on the Kaufmann thread about this. In fact, more than one.)

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

labour unions

Hello Michael.

"Love the anarchists. Without them there would have been no labor unions."

What, no labour unions? Hmmm, oh dear, perhaps then the unemployed would have jobs.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

answers, we got answers

Hello CD. First, permit me to thank you for starting this thread. True, it has undergone a metamorphosis that would have shocked even Kafka, but it has been an instant success. That said . . .

"Even if we assume for the sake of argument that Liz was in a bad place for soliciting, what is her reaction if the customer approached her? Is she going to turn down an easy chance to make money?"

I haven't the foggiest notion about this. Nor am I sure why she would be approached. Finally, I'm not sure how easy it would be. Sorry.

"I know that you don't like the idea of Liz deciding to make the best of a bad evening by deciding to solicit but what actually prevents her from doing so?"

Nothing, I suppose--unless she were wearing a chastity device. Again, however, this would be a move that would show ill timing and bad business sense, which seems, at first blush, opposed to the crafty business woman who invests in flowers, breath fresheners and seeks a lint brush.

"It seems to me like she had everything that she needed with her."

Possibly. Except perhaps the will. And, if your above points are correct, she lacked good timing and business sense.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Marx

Hello Maria. Yes, my remarks were directed against their level of diction. My views on socialism/anarchism were not brought into the mix.

Incidentally, as a young lad, working as a dustman, I read "Kapital" and "The Communist Manifesto." I declared for Marx and Engels (no, not Groucho and Marty, the others). One day, however, I ran dead into reality and made peace with free market oeconomy. But none of that was germane to my comments about rhetoric.

Cheers.
LC

[mariab]

Lynn Cates wrote:
Hello CD. First, permit me to thank you for starting this thread. True, it has undergone a metamorphosis that would have shocked even Kafka
You don't say!!