A Modern Day BS Man/Liz Encounter

[caz]

So is the theory here that Schwartz was not in Berner Street at all, and therefore had no real idea of who was there, what they may have been doing, what they may have seen, and what noises/screams etc may have been audible, when he claimed to be there himself, witnessing what he said he witnessed?

How easily could it all have come crashing down, if a copper had been passing along Berner at precisely 12.45 and experienced a completely different scenario, which was being held back while enquiries were ongoing? Perjury anyone? A 'theatrical' Jew at the end of a rope anyone?

What a tangled web... unless whoever briefed Schwartz could be certain that his story could not be disproved by anyone else's.

Love,

Caz
X

[lynn cates]

may the Schwartz be with you

Hello Caz. Yes, that is pretty well the theory. And no, I am not sure who briefed Israel, but I wonder if the club member that PC Smith spotted chatting up Liz at 12:35 did not retroactively grasp what had happened and "help with the input"?

I'm not clear on perjury being a "hanging offense" but consider how many dodges he could have.

1. (Through a translator) "Oh, so THAT'S what that word means. Sorry, I was misunderstood--you just can't get good translators these days."

2. "Oh dear, that PC just couldn't see into that dark yard as I could." Else he would have seen what I saw."

And so on.

Tangled? Convoluted? Indeed! But perhaps preferable to what chaps like Diemshitz perceived as the alternative.

(Incidentally, have you read the newspaper account of the judge's assessment of Diemshitz's testimony at the Berner st "riot" the next spring? Very revealing of LD's veracity!)

Cheers.
LC

[Simon Wood]

Hi Lynn,

It was most accommodating of the man who shouted out "Lipski" to choose a word/name that Israel Schwartz, "a foreigner and unable to speak English", might understand.

Regards,

Simon

[lynn cates]

night vision

Hello Simon. Right. Not to mention his acute night vision in grasping that Schwartz was Semitic and might be warned by the slur. Not bad for a tipsy chap.

Cheers.
LC

[Fisherman]

Lynn Cates writes:

"Not to mention his acute night vision in grasping that Schwartz was Semitic and might be warned by the slur. Not bad for a tipsy chap."

Oh, come on, Lynn - we all know that Schwarts´appearance was described as being distinctly jewish or something like that. In Malmö, where I work, there is a lot of racial quarreling going on (some of it in MORE than tipsy conditions), and I would say that the difference appearancewise inbetween Swedes and semitic people from Arab countries - where very many of those who arrive in Sweden originally come from - would not differ very much from the one inbetweeen Brits and semitics. And it is not as if the people involved are having any sort of trouble to recognize who belongs to what group ...

It will take more - and better! - arguments to remove Israel Schwartz from Berner Street.

The best,
Fisherman

[lynn cates]

books and covers

Hello Fish. You recall the old phrase, "That's funny, he doesn't LOOK Jewish."?

Now, strongly Semitic appearance? Hmm, I'll have to think about that one. Have you looked at the police sketch of John Kelly for example? But, frankly, I don't put too much stock by appearances. After all, because of my strong Scots' features--dark hair, skin and eyes--I am sometimes thought to be Hispanic. (My side whiskers and walrus should have made my race plain.)

At any rate, I try NOT to confuse books and covers.

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

But wasn't Lipski also used as a verb meaning to do bodily harm to someone?

c.d.

[lynn cates]

verb

Hello CD. It was indeed. But it is less likely that a Gentile would adapt the phrase.

If used as a verb, likely a Jewish speaker. If a noun, looks like a racial slur against a Jewish person.

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

Hi Lynn,

Well it seems to me that we have a situation where its use would be appropriate be it a noun or a verb. So for Schwartz to have heard it does not strike me as strange at all.

c.d.

[lynn cates]

slur recognition

Hello CD. Not at all unusual for Israel to have heard it--especially if he had lived in the neighbourhood for awhile.

And, to be fair, in his story he wasn't sure to whom BS man referred.

Also, whilst being fair, I know Fish wishes to add that the story was not self-aggrandising and sounds closer to the truth for that reason.

Concedo.

But, that said, "I still 'ave me doubts."

Cheers.
LC

[Robert]

Hi Lynn

If Schwarz was briefed to have the man calling out "Lipski," then the only reason for briefing him thus would be if the cry was a common anti-semitic cry heard in the area. And if that was the case, then there is no reason why such a cry couldn't have been hurled at Schwarz by a real BS making a real attack on Stride. As for Schwarz distinguishing the word among some other words of BS's which he may not have understood at all, well, according to the premiss of your argument it was a word which Schwarz would probably have heard several times unless he arrived here extremely recently, and the word would have had unpleasant associations for him. In fact, he may even have thought he heard it on that night although BS didn't actually say it - people who are constantly targeted begin to develop a mild paranoia about such things.

[Robert]

Didn't see your latest post while I was doing mine.

[Robert]

Lynn, one more point : I don't think that those given to uttering racial slurs check very closely before uttering the slur. Especially if tipsy. Indeed someone who's half tipsy might shout at someone who looks half Lipski.

[lynn cates]

clever

Hello Robert. Those are some good points. But mine is extremely simple. If I wish to impugn a person of race X, I need merely to ascertain what counts as a racial slur by a member of race X against my race. Then, I put the slur in his mouth to:

1. demonise him

2. deflect blame for the fracas from myself

My rather paedestrian claim is that Diemshitz, Wess, et al desperately needed to have a possible assailant for Liz who was anything EXCEPT Jewish.

I think it was a clever stroke.

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

Hi Lynn,

Let's go all the way back to my initial post on this thread. Had I gotten close to the couple and stared or if I had looked like I was about to intervene, I would not have been surprised to get a "hey ***hole, what are you looking at?" thrown in my direction.

No snide comments please on the appropriateness of the term used.

c.d.