Originally posted by lynn cates
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Did jack kill liz stride?
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Originally posted by lynn cates View Post
Now extrapolate to Liz. If she were face down and arms pointed west, then OF course she would be retreating FROM Berner and her assailant. But she didn't; so, she wasn't.
I admire the cases you lay out, and they may be true, but more likely they are not because there are too many scenarios to make the chances good.
Mikehuh?
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Originally posted by lynn cates View PostHello Jon. Thanks.
The same. Unless you refer to her face being turned left. But that is not what I mean.
Cheers.
LC
In the fracas leading up to her death have you not considered that the killer manoeuvered her about. Which coincidentally Schwartz describes.
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"No good sayin' it ain't."
Hello Michael. Thanks.
"Many different directions to retreat. A person might simply withdraw, stepping backwards."
Don't mean to offend, but this reminds one of Lestrade's trying to account for "Brunton's" footsteps going up to the wall then stopping.
"I'll put it to you like this Mr. 'Olmes. Brunton killed Musgrave against the wall. Then he threw him over his shoulder like this. Then he walked backward with his shoes in the prints."
But we all recall how THAT ended. Dennis Hoey tripped over the ottoman.
Cheers.
LC
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pushed about
Hello Jon. Thanks.
Yes, her face was turned left from the axis of her body. But I was not referring to that.
"In the fracas leading up to her death have you not considered that the killer manoeuvered her about?"
In what way? I suppose he could give her nudges backward. Of course, IF the cachous were out, they'd be gone. Conversely, IF they were NOT out, it would be a devil of a time so to do.
"Which coincidentally Schwartz describes."
Schwartz describes what happened BEFORE she fell. Afterward, he describes only her "non-loud screams." And, as you recall, he is pulling her EAST, NOT shoving her WEST.
Cheers.
LC
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Hi Lynn
Originally posted by lynn cates View PostIn what way? I suppose he could give her nudges backward. Of course, IF the cachous were out, they'd be gone. Conversely, IF they were NOT out, it would be a devil of a time so to do.
...Schwartz describes what happened BEFORE she fell. Afterward, he describes only her "non-loud screams." And, as you recall, he is pulling her EAST, NOT shoving her WEST..
I recall that he tried to pull her eastwards but instead pushed her in a westerly direction.
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Originally posted by Michael W Richards View PostIts possible that the Schwartz altercation never happened cd. Quite possible by the evidence. Which makes the last sighting of Liz Stride alive, PC Smiths at 12:35.
But the evidence is that Schwartz did see some sort of altercation between the murder victim and a broad-shouldered man. You can't just dismiss his entire police statement as an out-and-out lie - not without some evidence that this particular witness, or his interpreter, had a logical reason to invent it.
I know you fancy this a Ripper murder...no secret there....
I would think that for the murder to be associated with a serial mutilator you would need evidence of mutilation or attempted mutilation. Apparently many arent that fussy about following the actual evidence to its logical conclusion....which is that Liz Stride was killed by one cut....suddenly, in a second or two, and she was left to die untouched any further.
To call her murder a "ripping", compared with the earlier and later murders, is like building a house with toothpicks.....when confronted and tested, it cannot help but collapse in on itself.
Love,
Caz
XLast edited by caz; 11-04-2013, 08:55 AM."Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov
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Originally posted by Michael W Richards View PostIve said this Ripper fellow rips...thats why the letter of the 27th nicknamed him as such....ergo, ...no ripping, no interruption....likely no Ripper.
Love,
Caz
X"Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov
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Surely, if the killer managed to subdue Stride so totally that he was able to lay her down 'gently' before (or as he was) cutting her throat, he was also able to move her into whatever position he chose between the subduing and the laying down. So how is it possible to tell what direction she was facing at the point when he subdued her into passive submission - and the cachous presumably stayed put because it was so sudden and so effective?
Love,
Caz
X"Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov
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Originally Posted by Wickerman View Post
In fighting form today Tom (posts #1532/3/4), but you're right on all points.Originally posted by Tom_Wescott View PostThanks for that. And in case it wasn't apparent in my reply to Moonpie, the 'hack' I was bashing him for quoting was myself.
Yours truly,
Tom Wescott
Unbashed and very much unashamed ..
Moonbegger .Last edited by moonbegger; 11-04-2013, 12:47 PM.
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Originally posted by Tom_Wescott View PostHi Pink. So you're saying the stumbling block for you is James Brown's evidence of hearing Stride say 'Not tonight, some other night?'
Tom Wescott
At the height of a murderous killing spree taking place on these very streets , we know the Ripper was more than capable of putting these unfortunate women at ease in his company , allowing them to lead him to .. Dark desolate back streets , Dark and desolate back yards , Darkest corner of a deserted square , Even inviting him home ! He definitely had the gift of the gab , familiarity, elevated status , whatever it was , it worked .. and in all probability he was given a time limit by the poor victim in which to commit his deadly deed .
Now turning back to Stride , and (according to a witness) she was not swooned or seduced into becoming an amicable victim , in fact quite the opposite ! She clearly wanted nothing to do with her would be assailant ..So was the Rippers charm offensive faulty on this particular night ? obviously not , because less than fifty minuets later he was charming the life out of poor Kate ! For me , his ability to put his victims at ease in his company was just as big a part of his MO as all the rest of it
Cheers ,
moonbegger .
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