Did jack kill liz stride?

[DVV]

We really need to put the killing of Liz Stride in context. Lets look at one comment for just a moment:

I agree that the spot was very unfit for mutilation or even killing.

You mean as opposed to killing Polly Nichols in the middle of a street, or killing Catherine Eddowes in a square that had three entrances & was patrolled by two beat constables, or killing Annie Chapman in a yard people walked through at all times of day and night to gain access to the outhouse?

Seriously?

Hi Sox,

as to me, seriously, yes.

But you're right, I don't mean more or less unfit than Bucks Row.
I mean: "it could suddenly have appeared unfit to the killer".
For various reasons. Good or not, but it was up to his judgement.
The location.
The time.
Time + location.
His state of mind.

Amitiés,
David

[joelhall]

Hi Joel,

I know nothing about horses, except that they have 4 legs.
Do they have a keen sense of smell?
Perhaps the pony used to shy whenever he smelt blood/slaughter-houses.

Amitiés,
David

if so the handler would not have been surprised that the horse had shied. also being in an area where they ere lots of fouls smells, not least that of dead animals the horse would be doing this rather alot.

needless to say the horse would have been adapted to its environment and only been surprised by something out of the ordinary or unusual which would startle it. it would be well used to smells in the local area and it is doubtful a chronic smell would frighten it so it starts.

[DVV]

On the contrary, the pony knew the spot.
And never expected to smell blood there.

Amitiés,
David

[joelhall]

On the contrary, the pony knew the spot.
And never expected to smell blood there.

Amitiés,
David

the horse would be used to those smells and so wouldnt be alarmed by it, regardless of specific position. it would not remember every precise spot and what it should smell like. it has learned that they dont signal a threat, and is part of its environment.

even so it wouldnt have so sensitive a sense of smell that it would smell a small pool of blood and recoil immediately. kind of like war horses - theyre not startled by the sounds of warfare making them bolt off even though its never in the same place.

likewise with hunt horses. they will run over countryside perhaps past all manner of dead and decaying animals (often these were used as fox bait), and not become startled, unless they were to suddenly step on something underfoot which gave way, or something which makes sudden movements against or to the sides of them, especially when it is lower down.

even then horses have been known to stampede and trample animals or people underfoot and keep going whilst in panic.

this is one reason that horses wear blinkers, so they will not react to anything suddenly appearing in their field of vision, or sudden movements near to the periphery. they natural reaction is to retreat from it.

its how theyre trained and how they adapt to their environment. a horse that has been reared in that type of locale would not be frightened of it, nor would it start just from a strange smell.

[j.r-ahde]

Hello joelhall and DVV!

If Saucy Jacky really was there, he was on the wrong spot in the pony's mind, wasn't he?!

When I was watching a documentary about horses, I noticed a few things;

1. A horse's hearing is closest to an absolute one of all domestic animals. This explains the stories I heard from old loggers; "that horse simply didn't want to go to the bridge. Then the bridge collapse!" etc. In another words: they hear, what we can't!

2. A horse's sight is very wide, 340 degrees. Missing the tip of it's snout and it's ass!

Anyway;

Jag undrar, att varför våra svenska vänner har inte ännu deltagit till den här diskussion!

All the best
Jukka

[joelhall]

1. A horse's hearing is closest to an absolute one of all domestic animals. This explains the stories I heard from old loggers; "that horse simply didn't want to go to the bridge. Then the bridge collapse!" etc. In another words: they hear, what we can't!

ironically one of my g-g-g grandfathers died with his twin grandsons when he went over a bridge in a storm in his horse and cart and the bridge collapsed... guess his horse needed a hearing aid

[j.r-ahde]

Hello joelhall!

The story I heard happened in a broad daylight, with no storm in sight!

So, maybe the environment has its effects!

I wonder, what the race-horses are thinking about the noise around them...

All the best
Jukka

[joelhall]

I wonder, what the race-horses are thinking about the noise around them...

All the best
Jukka

thats he least of their worries... you do have to wonder who would half blindfold a horse then spank it with a crop on the bum whilst bouncing up and down on it dont you

perhaps they have a sixth sense of some kind thought, which has been claimed for many different animals (and now humans it seems)? maybe the horse thought the bridge looked too weak?

[KatBradshaw]

The scene has always bothered me in so much as the meeting taking place. I imagine a noisey club where they would probably not hear what was outside but where the Ripper would know that he could be caught at any moment.

[joelhall]

The scene has always bothered me in so much as the meeting taking place. I imagine a noisey club where they would probably not hear what was outside but where the Ripper would know that he could be caught at any moment.

or perhaps if it was that busy inside wouldnt notice a late comer at some point. if indeed he was startled by the sound of hooves, it is most likely he would have run away from the sound than out towards it.

or he could have found some hiding hole until it was safe to get out.

[Hunter]

Horses

Hello everyone,

As a horse owner I can say that a horse can shy at anything that is out of place. I am a cavalry reenactor and my horse is used to guns, cannons, people running around, but sometimes while trail riding on the farm he will shy at something that was not on the trail before. Louis' pony was used to going in that gate regularly but not used to having a human body lying there. I believe that Louis said that his pony was nervous anyway. Of course, we don't know but I think his pony could shy from the body without someone else lurking nearby because normaly if a horse perceives a threat from movement in his peripheral vision he would back up.

Best wishes,
Hunter

[Tom_Wescott]

It seems Ive acquired something of a reputation with you

I imagine all of us have some sort of reputation with the myriad of visitors to this site who read it but don't post. If I were you, I'd be more concerned with how Lynn's painting a picture of you as a corruptor of children.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[joelhall]

Hello everyone,

As a horse owner I can say that a horse can shy at anything that is out of place. I am a cavalry reenactor and my horse is used to guns, cannons, people running around, but sometimes while trail riding on the farm he will shy at something that was not on the trail before. Louis' pony was used to going in that gate regularly but not used to having a human body lying there. I believe that Louis said that his pony was nervous anyway. Of course, we don't know but I think his pony could shy from the body without someone else lurking nearby because normaly if a horse perceives a threat from movement in his peripheral vision he would back up.

Best wishes,
Hunter

what about strange smells, as was mentioned previously? im guessing this would not make a difference if it was a smell the horse was accustomed to?

[DVV]

Hello everyone,

As a horse owner I can say that a horse can shy at anything that is out of place. I am a cavalry reenactor and my horse is used to guns, cannons, people running around, but sometimes while trail riding on the farm he will shy at something that was not on the trail before. Louis' pony was used to going in that gate regularly but not used to having a human body lying there. I believe that Louis said that his pony was nervous anyway. Of course, we don't know but I think his pony could shy from the body without someone else lurking nearby because normaly if a horse perceives a threat from movement in his peripheral vision he would back up.

Best wishes,
Hunter

Thanks Hunter,

good enough for me.

Amitiés
David

[Tom_Wescott]

I don't know if it makes a difference, but Diemschutz had a pony, not a horse.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott