Elizabeth Stride ..who killed her ?

[c.d.]

I don't agree - it's possible to me that the double event was planned, and that he intentionally did not mutilate victim #1 so that he would still appear presentable to victim #2.

That said, the flaw in Michael Richard's post is that he assumes that Dimshultz must be the disturber. It didn't even have to be an actual person. The killer could easily have been spooked by what he thought was the sound of the club door opening, or something else.

Hello Damaso,

You are right that a disturbance, if there was one, needn't have come from Diemschutz. It could have been anything.

c.d.

[John G]

Hello Damaso,

You are right that a disturbance, if there was one, needn't have come from Diemschutz. It could have been anything.

c.d.

Such as Fanny Mortimer coming to her doorstep after Stride was attacked by PC Smith's suspect. In fact, this seems to be the most likely scenario.

[Fleetwood Mac]

I believe the Killer wanted to be in control at all times, he was cunning and calculated, he left little if anything to chance. I think it's highly likely that he already knew where the best places to kill were & if he was able to, he made sure that's where the killings took place. To escape the scene after each killing, he surely must have known the area very well indeed.
Best regards.

I think the opposite.

To me he was just like Peter Sutcliffe, The Yorkshire Ripper.

Opportunistic and was simply lucky where many other serial killers weren't.

[Fleetwood Mac]

I don't agree - it's possible to me that the double event was planned, and that he intentionally did not mutilate victim #1 so that he would still appear presentable to victim #2.

That said, the flaw in Michael Richard's post is that he assumes that Dimshultz must be the disturber. It didn't even have to be an actual person. The killer could easily have been spooked by what he thought was the sound of the club door opening, or something else.

I couldn't agree.

In fact, he would surely be the first serial killer in history who was setting up a decoy before moving on to his 'real' intention. This simply does not happen.

[wigngown]

Unlike Sutcliffe, he was never caught. I respect your opinion and luck no doubt did play a part but I suspect not to the degree you believe.
Best regards.

[Damaso Marte]

I couldn't agree.

In fact, he would surely be the first serial killer in history who was setting up a decoy before moving on to his 'real' intention. This simply does not happen.

I think that if the double event were planned, both of them would have been "real" intentions.

In my view of the intended double event theory, he intended to kill two women, not kill one woman in order to kill a second woman.

[Michael W Richards]

I don't agree - it's possible to me that the double event was planned, and that he intentionally did not mutilate victim #1 so that he would still appear presentable to victim #2.

That said, the flaw in Michael Richard's post is that he assumes that Dimshultz must be the disturber. It didn't even have to be an actual person. The killer could easily have been spooked by what he thought was the sound of the club door opening, or something else.

In fact I dont believe Louis disturbed anything or anyone. I believe he came upon a situation that required some quick thinking...and I believe that was probably much closer to 12:45 than it was 1am. What this scene lacks is any kind of evidence that the killer of Liz Stride so much as touched her after the throat cut, when she easily could have been at the very least rolled onto her back. But that would only happen if her killer wished to do what the mutilator at large did.

[c.d.]

Hello Michael,

But PC Lamb testified that the body looked like it had been quietly laid down. You would expect a non-Jack killer to just let the body fall.

c.d.

[c.d.]

"If Schwartz did see what he claims he saw, then 'BS Man' is almost undoubtedly Stride's killer, as the chances of her being assaulted by a second man are slim to none."

Hello Harry,

This is an old post from you that I came across while reviewing this thread.

I have trouble understanding your total opposition to a second man and that man being her killer. Schwartz may have technically described an assault but we know absolutely nothing about what initiated it or what the B.S. man's intentions might have been. Whitechapel (as I understand it to be) was a rough place. Here you have a lone woman out late at night right when the pubs are closing and a number of the men on the street had been drinking. Is it so inconceivable that Stride might have initiated the incident saying or doing something that angered the B.S. man so that he gives her a shove perhaps harder than he meant to? Cusses her out and goes on his way? It really needn't be anything more sinister than that.

Could it be that you are interpreting it in light of what happened afterwards so that it becomes much more significant in light of her being killed a short time later?

c.d.

[John G]

A better interpretation on my view is that Schwartz lied and Stride was killed by PC Smith's suspect at about 12:45.

[c.d.]

A better interpretation on my view is that Schwartz lied and Stride was killed by PC Smith's suspect at about 12:45.

What reason would Schwartz have for lying?

c.d.

[John G]

What reason would Schwartz have for lying?

c.d.

What reason would George Hutchinson, Matthew Packer, Morris Lewis or Violena have for lying, even though their evidence is suspect?

Nonetheless, I would concede that Schwartz may have witnessed a domestic squabble, possibly involving a different woman, at an earlier time than he estimated.

In fact, as discussed at length on another thread, PC Smith was out by about 10 minutes with his time estimate, so it's possible that he saw Stride with the suspect at about 12:45. This scenario would then gel very well with Mortimer's evidence, suggesting the killer may have been disturbed by her appearance on the doorstep, and fled when she went inside.

[Observer]

A better interpretation on my view is that Schwartz lied and Stride was killed by PC Smith's suspect at about 12:45.

So,if the killer of Stride was P.C. Smith's suspect, and this was Jack The Ripper why did he not mutilate the body ?

[John G]

So,if the killer of Stride was P.C. Smith's suspect, and this was Jack The Ripper why did he not mutilate the body ?

I would suggest he was disturbed by Fanny Mortimer coming to her doorstep. He waits patiently for her to go inside but, according to her own evidence, she remains for about ten minutes. Of course, during this period he would have risked discovery at any time, i.e. by someone entering the yard or exiting the club. Therefore, when Mortimer eventually does return indoors the perpetrator is sufficiently rattled to flee the scene in search of another victim.

[Observer]

I've just saw your post above, it's highly unlikely (if Mortimer was the catalyst for the killer to flee the scene) that she would not have noticed Stride and her killer. Go and have a look at how close Mortimer's front door was from the scene. There is a photograph of the IWMC here in Casebook.