Elizabeth Stride ..who killed her ?

[RivkahChaya]

Hi,

I think that the difference in distance and the time it would take to walk is misleading ... because unless Jack knew that he would meet someone in Mitre Square he would have just been meandering around, so not taking a direct route.

So, it could have taken him fifteen minutes, three hours, or even more.

You make an excellent point that isn't seen very often, especially in movies that have Michael Caine running around until he's out of breath, with a Victorian stopwatch, and declaring that it was possible, like JtR is in some kind of serial killer triathlon.

If it happened that JtR did luck into a second victim quickly, well, that's what happened, but I think someone needs to find a way to show that JtR walked to Mitre Square for some purpose other than seeking a victim, like he was heading home, unsated or not, and then ran into Eddowes unexpectedly. Of course, that would mean establishing either Eddowes or Stride's killer by other means, and then seeking to show how it made sense that the person who killed one, killed the other. As I understand it, Mitre Square wasn't a pick-up point, and it wasn't that Stride's killer would be headed there because it was a sure-fire place to find a victim. That would be another explanation for the killer going straight there, but since it wasn't, that explanation doesn't work.

Was Mitre Square on the way to some popular pick-up point that Stride's killer could have been headed to? He passed through it, and then realized that he had an opportunity in Eddowes. That I could see.

[c.d.]

Hello Rivkah,

I have always had a feeling that Jack might have been the one buying her drinks earlier in the evening and that they made an appointment for later.

c.d.

[RivkahChaya]

Hello Rivkah,

I have always had a feeling that Jack might have been the one buying her drinks earlier in the evening and that they made an appointment for later.

c.d.

I have wondered that too, because she was so worried about time, but that seems to suggest that Stride wasn't a victim, if he already had an appointment with his victim for the night. So that means that meeting up with Eddowes wasn't the reason for hightailing it over to the Square.

On the other hand, if he planned on a double event, and made the appointment with Eddowes, why schedule them so close together? It seems an odd combination of poor and good planning. And yes, I know the same person can both plan well, and fail to plan (I've done it); it just seems wrong. He might forget something, but not when he was supposed to meet Eddowes-- who at any rate was probably running late.

I'm now very amused, and disgusted with myself for being amused, at the idea of a JtR who planned out the double event carefully, and yet forgot to allot enough time for the mutilation of the first victim.

[Rosella]

If Jack was buying Eddowes drinks earlier in the evening and chatting to her in a pub wouldn't he have been a bit worried about being seen in Kate's company if he was planning murder? I mean, if he was a local and there was a casual onlooker in the pub who knew either of them by sight Jack would then be done for.

I just think he was an opportunist who must have lived near Aldgate at that time. Kate didn't fancy a good hiding from John Kelly so she was probably making her way towards the casual ward at Mile End when she and her killer met up, by chance.

[lynn cates]

almost

Hello CD.

"I have always had a feeling that Jack might have been the one buying her drinks earlier in the evening and that they made an appointment for later."

Replace "Jack" with "someone," and we are in league.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

pegs

Hello Rivkah.

"I'm now very amused, and disgusted with myself for being amused, at the idea of a JtR who planned out the double event carefully, and yet forgot to allot enough time for the mutilation of the first victim."

I am more amused at trying to pound a square peg into a round hole.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Why?

Hello Rosella. Why would she go all the way to Mile End?

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

"If Jack was buying Eddowes drinks earlier in the evening and chatting to her in a pub wouldn't he have been a bit worried about being seen in Kate's company if he was planning murder? I mean, if he was a local and there was a casual onlooker in the pub who knew either of them by sight Jack would then be done for."

Buying women drinks is not a crime. He might be a suspect but the police would have to have something to tie him to the crime. That in and of itself would not suffice.

c.d.

[Karl]

You make an excellent point that isn't seen very often, especially in movies that have Michael Caine running around until he's out of breath, with a Victorian stopwatch, and declaring that it was possible, like JtR is in some kind of serial killer triathlon.

I suspect the reason that mini-series with Michael Caine had Aberline running till he's out of breath to cover the distance inside 40 minutes is that they made the same mistake I initially made: I traced the distance between Mitre Square and 40-42 Berner's street - which are about 4,7 km apart and would have to be covered at a jog at the very least to make the time. However, from old maps I see that Berner street crosses with Fairclough street and runs parallel with Batty street. Looking at Google Maps, that means that the old Berner street is now Henrique's street. The distance to Mitre Square is about a kilometre, easily covered in 15 minutes at a leisurely pace.

[Parker_Pyne79]

I think it was either the night watchman or Jack who was disturbed and fled.

[wigngown]

Personally, I don't think the Killer was in Company with the women before he murdered them. He waited in the shadows and took the opportunity when it presented itself. JtR was undoubtedly a cool, cunning and calculated killer who left little if anything to chance.

[wigngown]

Yes, I think Stride was another one of JtR's victims.

[Michael W Richards]

I think that the main obstacle with assigning Stride to the suspected Ripper tally arent the geographic or chronologic issue...the same person could have been at both locations at times which coincide with the existing witness testimony.

The problem is that based on those same witnesses and parameters, the murderer of Stride might have had as much as 10 minutes, supposedly alone with the victim, after the throat cut. The absence of any evidence that the victim was even touched by the murderer after that single cut suggests that her murderer did not have mutilations on his mind.

And the killer of the 2 preceding Canonical victims seems to have been driven to kill by the desire to conduct pm mutilations.

[Fleetwood Mac]

I think that the main obstacle with assigning Stride to the suspected Ripper tally arent the geographic or chronologic issue...the same person could have been at both locations at times which coincide with the existing witness testimony.

The problem is that based on those same witnesses and parameters, the murderer of Stride might have had as much as 10 minutes, supposedly alone with the victim, after the throat cut. The absence of any evidence that the victim was even touched by the murderer after that single cut suggests that her murderer did not have mutilations on his mind.

And the killer of the 2 preceding Canonical victims seems to have been driven to kill by the desire to conduct pm mutilations.

It seems to be a safe bet that the object of the murders was mutilation, so if it was Jack then he must have been disturbed.

I do think it was Jack, personally, and a couple more: McKenzie and Coles.

I will always be swayed by the law of averages.

[Robert St Devil]

Hello MWR.

Adding to your obstacles is the romance factor. We have the potential truth that Jack the Ripper strolled Eliz Stride up and around the avenue on a date before attacking her. I don,t believe anything like that had occurred with anyone since Martha Tabram. Nichols, Chapman and Eddowes, murders are usually understood as blitz attacks without the lengthy stroll.

* I believe that MO links Stride and Eddowes but there definitely is a variance in the signature. Meaning, both were strangled and had their throat sliced in half, but Eddowes, body suffers grotesque mutilations.