September 30,1888- The night of Clues?

[Abby Normal]

Hi everyone, long, long time reader, first time poster, so please bear with me. Love the website and have learned so much over the years.

Something you've mentioned, Abby, which has always been a puzzle, is whether Stride was out soliciting, or on a date. The circs - being dolled on and hanging around with a man, IMO do lean toward the latter, which leaves me the question. If the 'date' she's seen with was the man who murdered her (and I know there could me more than one man she's in the company of that night) is it reasonable to assume he'd be someone mature and closer to her age and not a 23 year old?

Apologies if this has been covered before.

hi john
welcome to tje nut house!

thats a great question. and yes that seems reasonable. but iwouldnt say date like it was pre planned. i think more then likely she went out for a good time, newly single, and keeping an eye out for a new man. and i think she met one who she maybe hoped was going to be, unfortunately for her it was the ripper.

[Abby Normal]

No, but I was noting that her location is the odd one out in terms of being on the other side of the main road/high street alongside the other poster noting that Berner Street was not necessarily where you'd go to find a prostitute. It's at least worth pointing out if we're going to debate the DE.

i think it might just be random, or that maybe he met her somewhere else, maybe even north of high street, and they seemed to have been wandering around together a bit. i dont think you can read much into her murder location being south of high street, although its a valid observation for discussion.

[JohnSAJR]

hi john
welcome to tje nut house!

thats a great question. and yes that seems reasonable. but iwouldnt say date like it was pre planned. i think more then likely she went out for a good time, newly single, and keeping an eye out for a new man. and i think she met one who she maybe hoped was going to be, unfortunately for her it was the ripper.

Thanks for the welcome and reply, Abby.

If she's out looking for a new suitor, it's more likely she'd seek someone closer to her age, rather than a man much younger, but I don't discount she's simply out for the night and met various men. IMO, the Brown and Schwartz statements are interesting. Brown sees and hears "No, not tonight. Some other night." Guy walks off angered and then u-turns back toward Stride as Schwartz comes along. What happens after that though? Anyway, cheers for the reply.

[scottnapa]

i think it might just be random, or that maybe he met her somewhere else, maybe even north of high street, and they seemed to have been wandering around together a bit. i don't think you can read much into her murder location being south of high street, although its a valid observation for discussion.

I think that Stride and Nichols were both picked up on Whitechapel and the ripper sought out a site that appealed to him. He went north with Nichols and went south with Stride. If you look at the crime on a map and thinking north south, Stride is the victim that stands out as being in a different quadrant but if you look at the crime on a map in the east west, the Nichols is the one that's questionable. I never considered Stride was picked up on Berner Street after all she was seen at the pub was a Bricklayer Arms and then continued south. i have found it to be useful to compare locations to ethnic boundaries. All of the victims lived in common houses in the same Jewish neighborhoods. My best guess is the Ripper live very close to the chalk message.

[The Rookie Detective]

Some excellent points being made on this thread.


I think the location of Stride's murder is interesting because it does fall south of Whitechapel Road.

However, I don't believe this was the exception because Coles and the Pinchin Street Torso were also south of the Whitechapel Road.

The idea that the Ripper was a Whitechapel murderer is rather misleading.

For example, on the night of the double event, Stride was slain in St George's in the East and Eddowes in the COL.


I think he should have been labelled the "East End murderer" because it covers a broader area; rather than restrict his crimes to Whitechapel.


The murder of Frances Coles is particularly interesting.

Her killer was almost certainly the man in the "cheesecutter hat" who punched Coles companion Ellen Callaran in the face after the latter had rejected the man's advances.


This man is reminiscent of the man who was alleged to have assaulted Stride.


There could therefore be a scenario whereby the man who murdered Stride, also murdered Coles...but him not having been the "Ripper."


We would then have a killer who operated south of Whitechapel Road.


The real ripper may have been responsible for...


Tabram
Nichols
Chapman
Eddowes
Kelly
McKenzie


It's interesting how the amount of victims that can be confidently attributed to the Ripper; still remains a relatively unknown aspect of the case.

[Tom_Wescott]

Whitechapel was too hot. Crawling with cops. It makes sense the Ripper moved to St. Georges and the COL for this reason. Probably for the same reason he went to Bethnal Green following Smith/Tabram when that area became a bit hot. If Stride was killed by a different hand than Eddowes (and that's a big if), then the two men were working together. This is the theory favored by the City of London police.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott