"I think I know him"

[Sam Flynn]

Taken over from a Tabram thread. Did Eddowes make up her story about knowing the killer, or was it made up for her? Here's a starter.

Sam, I think that I gave you a plausible explanation for what may have occurred had the story by the landlady been accurate.

I still find it difficult to believe that the killer had enough time to track her down, even if her story had spread like wildfire in the ~24h between her allegedly telling her story to the casual ward deputy and her death. There was an even shorter time between her allegedly telling the deputy her story and her apparently being plied with booze by her killer and/or his supposed accomplices. And, if the latter happened, why didn't they just finish her off there and then, without leaving her to be picked up by the police and banged up in the cells for an indeterminate amount of time? There was absolutely no guarantee that she'd be released that night, let alone conveniently in time to meet her killer some 30 minutes later. And, if she had information that would put her in line for the reward, why didn't she tell the police when she had the chance? The answer is almost certainly that she didn't know who the killer was and, I'd contend, that she didn't even think that she did. It's much more likely that the casual ward deputy made the story up, or that a journalist - again, from a single newspaper - invented it himself.

[GUT]

I have no reason to doubt she said she knew him (or thoughts she did).

But either that was just a coincidence it seems many thought they could solve it (not much has changed).

Or she arranged to meet him to talk it through or bribe him or give him the chance to change her mind, and paid the price

[Hunter]

...The answer is almost certainly that she didn't know who the killer was and, I'd contend, that she didn't even think that she did. It's much more likely that the casual ward deputy made the story up, or that a journalist - again, from a single newspaper - invented it himself.

Agree, but it doesn't stop people with a vivid imagination from having a go at it.

[DirectorDave]

Back then, like now I'm sure everybody had a theory on who the murderer was...some more ridiculous than others.

[Jon Guy]

and, I'd contend, that she didn't even think that she did. .

There was Edward McKenna.

The local oddball who had also been hop picking. He was picked up by police and questioned about the murders.

If her suspect wasn`t him, it could have been someone like that. A nut returning from the hops just as the murders commence.

[Michael W Richards]

Taken over from a Tabram thread. Did Eddowes make up her story about knowing the killer, or was it made up for her? Here's a starter.

I still find it difficult to believe that the killer had enough time to track her down, even if her story had spread like wildfire in the ~24h between her allegedly telling her story to the casual ward deputy and her death. There was an even shorter time between her allegedly telling the deputy her story and her apparently being plied with booze by her killer and/or his supposed accomplices. And, if the latter happened, why didn't they just finish her off there and then, without leaving her to be picked up by the police and banged up in the cells for an indeterminate amount of time? There was absolutely no guarantee that she'd be released that night, let alone conveniently in time to meet her killer some 30 minutes later. And, if she had information that would put her in line for the reward, why didn't she tell the police when she had the chance? The answer is almost certainly that she didn't know who the killer was and, I'd contend, that she didn't even think that she did. It's much more likely that the casual ward deputy made the story up, or that a journalist - again, from a single newspaper - invented it himself.

As I pointed out in another thread Sam, the killer didn't need to find this woman who was claiming she knew his name, I suspect she came to him, if vicariously, through his intermediaries.

Although there is no guarantee she would be released at a specific time, there was a pretty sure bet she would be set free. That was the city policy at that time, and she wouldn't need an entire night to become sober enough to release. I suspect a meeting time was prearranged, but whomever was waiting for her knew she was in jail. Her hand on Sailor Mans chest seems to me to be some kind of gesture of relief, like she was grateful to the man for waiting. Although I have strong suspicions that Sailor Man is a red herring anyway.

The Irish component here is what intrigues me.....her dedication to Conway to the extent she has a prominent tattoo, for life, on her forearm. The social interactions she would have had at that time would naturally been with Irish associates of his. And the fact that when she was killed Irish revolutionary doctrines and plots were making headlines at the Parnell Commission hearings. The air was filled with talk of spies and fiends, maybe she knew some. Maybe she knew a cruel one. Maybe she was guessing.

I think from what Ive read about Kate, she was, perhaps more than most of the others, someone who intended to survive the hardships. Determined. Maybe looking for some way out of the East End. Perhaps that dream led her to believe she could blackmail dangerous people to extort monies that surpassed any reward monies available to her, and leave the ghetto the East End had become. Maybe her new jacket was evidence of that wishful thinking.

[curious]

Maybe her new jacket was evidence of that wishful thinking.

New jacket? Don't think I've ever heard of that before. Please fill me in.

curious

[Sam Flynn]

As I pointed out in another thread Sam, the killer didn't need to find this woman who was claiming she knew his name, I suspect she came to him, if vicariously, through his intermediaries.

There was still precious little time for her to have tracked him, or his associates, down. Besides, if she was so sure of her information, why not go to the police first as last, without risking having her throat cut by this evidently dangerous man by unilaterally meeting with him and provoking his ire with blackmail threats?

Although there is no guarantee she would be released at a specific time, there was a pretty sure bet she would be set free. That was the city policy.

But by no means guaranteed, and she could easily have blabbed the killer's name to the police whilst ostensibly banged up for the night, thereby succeeding in her (alleged) intention to claim the reward. Indeed, if her request to be let out was so that she could honour a prearranged meeting with the killer and/or his accomplices, she could even have offered to lead the police to him, thereby GUARANTEEING her release from the cells, and securing the reward in one fell swoop.

[DJA]

What reward!

Why would Jack have plied her with alcohol?

[Wickerman]

.... I suspect a meeting time was prearranged, but whomever was waiting for her knew she was in jail.

So this killer who had good reason (good enough to kill her), let her stay among the police for several hours, severely intoxicated to the extent where she could have blabbed anything, but only planned to eliminate her after she had spoken to police???

How can that possibly make sense to anyone?

[Jon Guy]

So this killer who had good reason (good enough to kill her), let her stay among the police for several hours, severely intoxicated to the extent where she could have blabbed anything, but only planned to eliminate her after she had spoken to police???

How can that possibly make sense to anyone?

Yes, but what if a drunken Eddowes getting picked up by the police was not supposed to happen !!
The plan may have been to keep buying her drinks (to keep her close) and then slaughter her when darkness falls.

[Wickerman]

Yes, but what if a drunken Eddowes getting picked up by the police was not supposed to happen !!
The plan may have been to keep buying her drinks (to keep her close) and then slaughter her when darkness falls.

It was already dark Jon.
It was the end of September, the Sun set at 5:40 pm, Eddowes was arrested by PC Robinson about 8:30 pm.

[Jon Guy]

It was already dark Jon.
It was the end of September, the Sun set at 5:40 pm, Eddowes was arrested by PC Robinson about 8:30 pm.

I was being poetic, Jon

[Michael W Richards]

So this killer who had good reason (good enough to kill her), let her stay among the police for several hours, severely intoxicated to the extent where she could have blabbed anything, but only planned to eliminate her after she had spoken to police???

How can that possibly make sense to anyone?

Frankly I'm surprised I have to have another go with this.....if she wanted to go to the Police and "blabbed" she could have done so at any time Jon and if the info was valuable, collected the reward that was available at that time. Which I believe was around 500L total, comprised of a few independently donated sums. She was also pissed drunk, how would anything she said to the police be considered as valuable information by them?

How could this not be clear to anyone?

My theory is that she was attempting to blackmail someone she should have steered clear of. The ransom for her silence would surely be worth more to a killer than the sum available through the reward.

[Michael W Richards]

Yes, but what if a drunken Eddowes getting picked up by the police was not supposed to happen !!
The plan may have been to keep buying her drinks (to keep her close) and then slaughter her when darkness falls.

My guess is that the meeting with Sailor Man was scheduled for midnight, the man waited because he knew at some point she would scurry over when she was released. IF in fact we have a legitimate sighting of Kate by Lawende. Something I highly doubt. But for the sake of argument I give Sailor Man a possible viable sighting.