"I think I know him"

[DJA]

There is no reference to the City Terminus in the link you provided. Also could you explain " Other side of Mitre Street to the station."? As I said, Mitre street is nowhere near the station.

No,there wasn't.

If you actually take the time to read the thread,you would see I have already admitted my mistake.

[Observer]

Says who?

Says the doctors who examined her. That is their lack of mentioning asphyxiation in their medical notes

[Observer]

No,there wasn't.

If you actually take the time to read the thread,you would see I have already admitted my mistake.

Then why don't you read the thread, and answer my question regarding Mitre Street and it's proximity to the station

[Observer]

No,there wasn't.

If you actually take the time to read the thread,you would see I have already admitted my mistake.

I've just had a look back at this thread, and nowhere do you state that you were in error regarding the Bull Inn being known as The City Terminus.

[DJA]

I've just had a look back at this thread, and nowhere do you state that you were in error regarding the Bull Inn being known as The City Terminus.

Probably because I wasn't in error.
"The Working Classes in Victorian Fiction" by PJ Keating,page 22.

I was in error regarding Mitre Street.

[Observer]

"The Working Classes in Victorian Fiction" by PJ Keating,page 22.

I was in error regarding Mitre Street.

Right no problem. Am I to take it that the reference to the Bull Inn being known as The City Terminus is to be found in the above book?

[Wickerman]

Says the doctors who examined her. That is their lack of mentioning asphyxiation in their medical notes

Hello Obs.
Happy New Year.

Most of the usual signs of asphyxiation were missing, true, like protruding tongue and clenched fingers. Yet one sign was present, and not accounted for by the slicing of the throat.

"There was great disfigurement of the face..."

The muscular features normally distort when the victim suffers prolonged agony which a swift slice to the throat does not accomplish.
Prolonged agony would be consistent with her breathing being restricted for a minute or two.

The tongue will not protrude if the mouth is closed, and the fingers not clench if she was holding on to something tight, like the assailants arm?

[Joshua Rogan]

Most of the usual signs of asphyxiation were missing, true, like protruding tongue and clenched fingers. Yet one sign was present, and not accounted for by the slicing of the throat.

"There was great disfigurement of the face..."

I suppose that's one interpretation, but isn't the simplest explanation that this is accounted for by the killer attacking her face with his knife?

[Wickerman]

Yes, it is ambiguous, as is much in this case.

[Joshua Rogan]

Where was this Shoe Lane casual ward?

Surmised it was near Fleet Street

Fairly near there, yes. It was on the West side of the City of London. I only mentioned it as an example of somewhere she might have been heading that wasn't Mitre Square, since we know she and Kelly had stayed there on their return from hopping. Which is a little odd in itself, since they surely would have had to travel past other casual wards on their way from Kent. But maybe they tried and failed to get into those?
Anyway, it's obvious that the Superintendant at Shoe Lane was Jack, as he was apparently the only one who knew Kate suspected him!

Happy New Year everyone!

[Observer]

Hello Obs.
Happy New Year.

Most of the usual signs of asphyxiation were missing, true, like protruding tongue and clenched fingers. Yet one sign was present, and not accounted for by the slicing of the throat.

"There was great disfigurement of the face..."

The muscular features normally distort when the victim suffers prolonged agony which a swift slice to the throat does not accomplish.
Prolonged agony would be consistent with her breathing being restricted for a minute or two.

The tongue will not protrude if the mouth is closed, and the fingers not clench if she was holding on to something tight, like the assailants arm?

Happy New Year Jon. Another another 23 minutes left of 2017 here though haha, and counting

Regarding the "disfigurement of the face". Wasn't that a description of the cuts sustained with the knife?

There's no doubt that Annie Chapman was strangled. It's a possibility that the others were subdued by partial strangulation. Perhaps Annie Chapman struggled somewhat and that was the cause of death, asphyxiation. Getting back to Kate Eddowes. I doubt whether she was rendered unconscious at a place removed from where she was found, and then carried into Mitre Square to be mutilated, and her throat cut.

[Wickerman]

.... Getting back to Kate Eddowes. I doubt whether she was rendered unconscious at a place removed from where she was found, and then carried into Mitre Square to be mutilated, and her throat cut.

True.

I never really contested the thought of strangulation.
The blood spatter/spray evidence dictated she was not on her feet when the throat was cut, and there was no indication of a bruise to her head, as we would expect if she were knocked unconscious. Equally no indication of drugs being used, or poison.
So, unless anyone chooses to advance the theory it was her choice to consciously lay down on her back, then asphyxiation/strangulation are the only obvious choices.
We do not need evidence to accept the only viable conclusion.

However, strangled elsewhere then carried to the spot is taking things too far.
Not that it couldn't have happened that way, but it is guesswork with nothing to support it. So, why is it necessary to suggest it?

[Sam Flynn]

However, strangled elsewhere then carried to the spot is taking things too far.

Indeed, especially when one considers that the spot in question was very dark; surely the darkest corner of Mitre Square wouldn't be the kind of place you'd choose to take a strangled body for evisceration. On the other hand, what better place to catch your (still living, breathing) victim off-guard with a surprise attack?

[Hunter]

I never really contested the thought of strangulation.
The blood spatter/spray evidence dictated she was not on her feet when the throat was cut, and there was no indication of a bruise to her head, as we would expect if she were knocked unconscious. Equally no indication of drugs being used, or poison.
So, unless anyone chooses to advance the theory it was her choice to consciously lay down on her back, then asphyxiation/strangulation are the only obvious choices.
We do not need evidence to accept the only viable conclusion.

Hi Jon,

Perhaps simply overpowering her and throwing her to the pavement and then cutting her throat is a viable conclusion. Brown does mention a recent bruise on the back of the left hand, some marks below the left ear and Foster's sketch details a rather large abrasion on the left cheek. She was rather small.

Actually, there were no visable signs of asphyxiation in either Stride or Eddowes and no posthulating by the medicos of that possibility at the time. They both were apparently quickly taken down.

[DJA]

I never really contested the thought of strangulation.

However, strangled elsewhere then carried to the spot is taking things too far.
Not that it couldn't have happened that way, but it is guesswork with nothing to support it. So, why is it necessary to suggest it?

Happy New Year!

Considering Watkin's beat,how do you explain the uncanny timing?
Not just the 14 minutes for everything,but also no relevant sightings in Duke Street, Mitre Street or St. James Place.