"I think I know him"

[Observer]

Hello Obs.
Happy New Year.

Most of the usual signs of asphyxiation were missing, true, like protruding tongue and clenched fingers. Yet one sign was present, and not accounted for by the slicing of the throat.

"There was great disfigurement of the face..."

The muscular features normally distort when the victim suffers prolonged agony which a swift slice to the throat does not accomplish.
Prolonged agony would be consistent with her breathing being restricted for a minute or two.

The tongue will not protrude if the mouth is closed, and the fingers not clench if she was holding on to something tight, like the assailants arm?

Happy New Year Jon. Another another 23 minutes left of 2017 here though haha, and counting

Regarding the "disfigurement of the face". Wasn't that a description of the cuts sustained with the knife?

There's no doubt that Annie Chapman was strangled. It's a possibility that the others were subdued by partial strangulation. Perhaps Annie Chapman struggled somewhat and that was the cause of death, asphyxiation. Getting back to Kate Eddowes. I doubt whether she was rendered unconscious at a place removed from where she was found, and then carried into Mitre Square to be mutilated, and her throat cut.

[Joshua Rogan]

Where was this Shoe Lane casual ward?

Surmised it was near Fleet Street

Fairly near there, yes. It was on the West side of the City of London. I only mentioned it as an example of somewhere she might have been heading that wasn't Mitre Square, since we know she and Kelly had stayed there on their return from hopping. Which is a little odd in itself, since they surely would have had to travel past other casual wards on their way from Kent. But maybe they tried and failed to get into those?
Anyway, it's obvious that the Superintendant at Shoe Lane was Jack, as he was apparently the only one who knew Kate suspected him!

Happy New Year everyone!

[Wickerman]

Yes, it is ambiguous, as is much in this case.

[Joshua Rogan]

Most of the usual signs of asphyxiation were missing, true, like protruding tongue and clenched fingers. Yet one sign was present, and not accounted for by the slicing of the throat.

"There was great disfigurement of the face..."

I suppose that's one interpretation, but isn't the simplest explanation that this is accounted for by the killer attacking her face with his knife?

[Wickerman]

Says the doctors who examined her. That is their lack of mentioning asphyxiation in their medical notes

Hello Obs.
Happy New Year.

Most of the usual signs of asphyxiation were missing, true, like protruding tongue and clenched fingers. Yet one sign was present, and not accounted for by the slicing of the throat.

"There was great disfigurement of the face..."

The muscular features normally distort when the victim suffers prolonged agony which a swift slice to the throat does not accomplish.
Prolonged agony would be consistent with her breathing being restricted for a minute or two.

The tongue will not protrude if the mouth is closed, and the fingers not clench if she was holding on to something tight, like the assailants arm?

[Observer]

"The Working Classes in Victorian Fiction" by PJ Keating,page 22.

I was in error regarding Mitre Street.

Right no problem. Am I to take it that the reference to the Bull Inn being known as The City Terminus is to be found in the above book?

[DJA]

I've just had a look back at this thread, and nowhere do you state that you were in error regarding the Bull Inn being known as The City Terminus.

Probably because I wasn't in error.
"The Working Classes in Victorian Fiction" by PJ Keating,page 22.

I was in error regarding Mitre Street.

[Observer]

No,there wasn't.

If you actually take the time to read the thread,you would see I have already admitted my mistake.

I've just had a look back at this thread, and nowhere do you state that you were in error regarding the Bull Inn being known as The City Terminus.

[Observer]

No,there wasn't.

If you actually take the time to read the thread,you would see I have already admitted my mistake.

Then why don't you read the thread, and answer my question regarding Mitre Street and it's proximity to the station

[Observer]

Says who?

Says the doctors who examined her. That is their lack of mentioning asphyxiation in their medical notes

[DJA]

There is no reference to the City Terminus in the link you provided. Also could you explain " Other side of Mitre Street to the station."? As I said, Mitre street is nowhere near the station.

No,there wasn't.

If you actually take the time to read the thread,you would see I have already admitted my mistake.

[DJA]

There were no signs of asphyxiation displayed on the body of Kate Eddowes.

Says who?

[Observer]

I'm just saying we don't know where she went after going left down Bishopsgate St. She might initially have headed toward the Shoe Lane casual ward for all we know, although there's probably not enough time to get there and back. Whether she met her killer heading there, wandering the streets aimlessly, or in a coffee shop we'll probably never know. But my guess would be she probably did head down Houndsditch and met him whilst walking around St Botolph's church, before heading via Duke St and Church Passage to the darkest corner of a secluded square. But that of course doesn't get us any further.

I'd agree Joshua. Duke Street was off the beaten track a bit. I'd say she headed back to the area around St Botolphs.

[Observer]

Neither were in Mitre Street.

Other side of Mitre Street to the station.

The Bull Inn was once the City Terminus of coaches travelling north east.

https://pubshistory.com/LondonPubs/A.../BullInn.shtml

There is no reference to the City Terminus in the link you provided. Also could you explain " Other side of Mitre Street to the station."? As I said, Mitre street is nowhere near the station.

[DJA]

I'm just saying we don't know where she went after going left down Bishopsgate St. She might initially have headed toward the Shoe Lane casual ward for all we know, although there's probably not enough time to get there and back. Whether she met her killer heading there, wandering the streets aimlessly, or in a coffee shop we'll probably never know. But my guess would be she probably did head down Houndsditch and met him whilst walking around St Botolph's church, before heading via Duke St and Church Passage to the darkest corner of a secluded square. But that of course doesn't get us any further.

Where was this Shoe Lane casual ward?

Surmised it was near Fleet Street