Charles Cross

[Sunny Delight]

Just thought that I’d add this here. My apologies if everyone already knows about this.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1800947798?SubscriptionId=AKIAJKOKUN4EWQH6OEPQ&tag=123pc-21&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953

A bit of fiction to add to the fiction being masqueraded as non-fiction on this subject.

Absolutely ridiculous.

[Geddy2112]

You think that I bought it?

I read the freebie sample and it looks like complete and utter horse manure, explaining that Tabram used to pimp out virgins including an attempt to pimp out Lechmere's teenage sister as a reason for the killings. Eeeek.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Does it have more fiction than Cutting Point?

You think that I bought it?

[Geddy2112]

A bit of fiction to add to the fiction being masqueraded as non-fiction on this subject.

Does it have more fiction than Cutting Point?

[Herlock Sholmes]

Just thought that I’d add this here. My apologies if everyone already knows about this.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1800947798?SubscriptionId=AKIAJKOKUN4EWQH6OEPQ&tag=123pc-21&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953

A bit of fiction to add to the fiction being masqueraded as non-fiction on this subject.

[Geddy2112]

After skimming through these recent offerings, the thought struck me that we might be seeing the first ever Ripperological tribute band.

Those too young to remember seeing Christer Holmgren and the Butlers in concert, can still rock out to their greatest hits, courtesy of one or two self-styled imitators.

Even though it's still the same ol' moldy oldies.

if they played at my funeral I'd still get up and walk out...

[rjpalmer]

And with the nonstop posting here about Lechmere still, it's like deja vu all over again.

After skimming through these recent offerings, the thought struck me that we might be seeing the first ever Ripperological tribute band.

Those too young to remember seeing Christer Holmgren and the Butlers in concert, can still rock out to their greatest hits, courtesy of one or two self-styled imitators.

Even though it's still the same ol' moldy oldies.

[Geddy2112]

Good afternoon Geddy and again, welcome back to Casebook,

And with the nonstop posting here about Lechmere still, it's like deja vu all over again.

Thank you and thank you for your post. Since Feb I've read just about every Cross thread. However it seems once you have read one you have read them all. I left here during the tedious Perrie postings which apparently turned out to be a damp squib. It was torture. So when I came back I tried to see what I'd missed since Perrie-Gate. It appears I'd missed Lechmere. I actually posted early on in one of the earlier Lechmere threads but did not realise on my return what a huge 'industry' it had become so I investigated that, some months later I'm still there.

Most of your post I've read about but thank you. I was not aware of the 'Ben' postings. I may go there next haha. I can remember reading about your Blink Films post, shame no one has spoken to them telling them it's a whole bucket of turd but nevermind.

Just got to find out what Christer and Ed were banned now... only joking Christer will be back in a month or so. That is going to be EPIC!

Thanks again, enjoy your weekend.

[Paddy Goose]

Good afternoon Geddy and again, welcome back to Casebook,

I've been doing a lot of reading recently to try and formulate exactly how the Cross/Lechmere story started and when it exactly got media traction. Also when Christer and Edward jumped onto it and more importantly why. I know of articles in the Ripperoligist 2000 onwards and I did find the Telegraph article from 2012.

1. Yes some students of the case wrote an article or two fitting up Charles Cross as the Ripper.

2. At some point his legal name Lechmere became known.

3. Ed Stow began posting here as 'Lechmere" espousing the theory.

4. Christer, who posted here as 'Fisherman' got on board the Lechmere train. During this period the Telegraph article came out.

5. Christer's video came out. THIS IS WHEN IT GAINED MEDIA TRACTION to answer your question. The Missing Evidence Video.

You asked

when Christer and Edward jumped onto it and more importantly why.

When? Ed in 2012, Christer shortly thereafter.

Why?, I'm not sure with Ed, I suppose just to have a suspect. For Christer, to have HIS OWN HUTCH. To win his parlour game with Ben here on Casebook.

When I first joined here in 2008 I noticed Fish (Christer) and Ben (Ben Holme) were locked in a debate on a Stride thread. Arguing over a cutaway jacket of all things. Neither would back down.

In the meantime, Ben was a proponent of the George Hutchinson Suspect theory, first promoted by Bob Hinton in his book. Note there are twenty something THOUSAND George Hutchinson Suspect posts here. A named plucked from the case files and fitted up as the Ripper. Sound familiar?

Well guess what, one day, out of the blue, Fish showed up on, of all places, a George Hutchinson Suspect thread. Posting. Arguing against, guess who? Ben, of all people. And this went on for several years. Tens of thousands of posts.

And then finally, one day Fish found his own Hutch. Lechmere. So he trumped Ben at the game of Casebook Suspect. It's that simple.

Thus began nonstop Lechmere threads. Ed & Fish versus the rest of us. This went on and on for several years. Hutchbook became Lechbook. Then the video came out.

How did the video Missing Evidence come about? I thought I explained this but will gladly explain it one more time. After the video appeared and was being discussed in depth here, Neil Bell, 'Monty' mentioned that previous to the video, he received a telephone call from someone at Blink Films asking "is there a suspect being discussed a lot on Casebook?" to which he said, yes, Lechmere. So Christer got his video by posting about Lechmere here constantly on Casebook. Which he had learned to do by posting constantly on the Hutch threads about a name plucked from the case files and fitted up as the Ripper. He won at the game.

6. All that posting here got Christer his video in the first place.

And with the nonstop posting here about Lechmere still, it's like deja vu all over again.

[Geddy2112]

I've been doing a lot of reading recently to try and formulate exactly how the Cross/Lechmere story started and when it exactly got media traction. Also when Christer and Edward jumped onto it and more importantly why. I know of articles in the Ripperoligist 2000 onwards and I did find the Telegraph article from 2012.

16-2-2008 - Cross exposed as Lechmere. So Christer knew about the name thing and months later still said Cross was NOT JtR on more than one occasion. So is it fair to assume it was not the initial outing of Cross as Lechmere that was the turning point.

https://forum.casebook.org/forum/ripper-discussions/suspects/lechmere-cross-charles/485-viability-of-charles-cross-as-the-ripper

Post #2 - Christer is anti Cross - 31-3-2008

https://forum.casebook.org/forum/ripper-discussions/suspects/lechmere-cross-charles/1279-charles-cross#post55352

Post #4 - Christer is anti Cross - 05-8-2008

I did post the Daily Telegraph article recently to the Facebook group to ask if that is where it began but instead it turned into a thread about how Ed was misquoted (four times apparently) and him claiming there was an old thread here where he denounces the Daily Telegraph. After a lot of searching it appears that this is that thread, although I'm not reading much denouncing. Is there another thread?

Funny how all this misquoting always seems to add bias to Lechmere as being guilty and never points to Lechmere being innocent. I mean what are the odds on that. Also what are the odds on the Daily Telegraph making the exact same errors as the Missing Evidence did? Astonishing, damn sloppy journalists.

[martin wilson]

Perhaps not entirely relevant but consider John Williams.
Not the Dr John Williams who appears on Casebooks' suspect board but John Williams of 65 Dorchester road,Canklow,Rotherham.
Which is the name and address given by Peter Sutcliffe when he was arrested in Sheffield.
If nothing else it proves that when it comes to odd coincidences,the ripper case is unbeatable.
(source Wicked Beyond Belief by Micheal Bilton)
All the best.

[Lechmere]

I shall have to dig out my birth certificate and check

[Abby Normal]

Real name? You ask about real names in a Charles Cross/Lechmere thread?

HaHa-yes. But just dont tell me your real name is Cross!

[Lechmere]

Real name? You ask about real names in a Charles Cross/Lechmere thread?

[Abby Normal]

Hi Glenn
I don’t think you shouldn’t get hung up over a loose word here or there.
Journalists are not experts in the case – most know nothing at all and try to put a story together quickly and based on partial information and then have to decipher their own short hand.
Also a charity occasion, such as that which sparked the interest in the Lechmere theory, will necessarily involve people in the organisation and promotion of the event who might be very keen, well meaning and helpful, yet unaware that every little detail of a press release would be dissected by ‘Ripper enthusiasts’ (if that is the right term).

The fact that this theory was trending on the internet shows that there is widespread interest in this field of study and people should be gratified about that.

Hi Lech
I saw the articles on the internet-Congrats for the recognition to you and Fish. They mentioned two authors-Christer who i know is Fish, but also Edward Stow? Is that you and your real name?