Charles Cross

[Geddy2112]

Perhaps the mistake is worse than ‘accidentally’ leaving the word ‘about’ out of a book. Or ‘accidentally’ leaving the word ‘about’ out of a documentary. Or ‘accidentally’ forgetting to mention this to a Barrister?

Or thinking the Coroner is a liar, or thinking one witness trumps three PCs about timings, or thinking an escaped tiger made him do it, or thinking Nichola Bulley is a reason, or thinking it was the Bagels, or thinking there will still be flesh in the Doveton St drains, or thinking Robert Paul could not casually walk 300 yards in under 15 mins, or thinking people who knew each other in real life get buried next to each other when they die... etc

[Geddy2112]

In this photo (auto sharpened in photoshop) the object in his right hand looks very much like a peaked cap. Looking at the height of his hands, it can be seen that his left arm is pointed back, and it appears to me that his hand is behind the alignment of the picket gate. Hard as I try, I can't see a chair.

Awesome, thank you. No chair, error on my behalf which I subsequently apologised for. Can you zoom in and tell us what his medal/badge is?

[Geddy2112]

According to an old post by Eduardo, Carlton Road is now Portelet Road, and No. 24 was on the southwest corner of Leatherdale Street.

The only ordnance map I can find (from 1894/5) shows a small back garden (marked in yellow) and if the line is a dividing fence, it could show where Charlie was standing, with the back corner of the building next door directly behind him on the other side of the fence.

He would be standing in the upper of the two yellow squares facing north, herringbone cap in hand, perhaps meditating on a life well lived.

As you have said after this post it does not seem to fit. Unless he is standing outside the front of the house. The houses still standing down the road have the same shape windows. Like I said are we 100% this is actually Lechmere because if Stow told me it was Wednesday I'd check a calendar

[Geddy2112]

Amazing that you can all apparently see the completely invisible, transparent, imaginary chair on his left, but somehow not see the *totally obvious* Loch Ness Monster over to his right...

Let's focus on that 'chair' again, shall we...?

Wow... in the original picture shown it looks like a chair. In the slightly enhanced version it's clear it's not a chair but a gate. The cane in the older photo is clearly now a peaked cap. There is still a window, and a fence dividing the properties.

In GBinOz's further enhancement we can see the 'birth' of the famous... what does Team Lechmere call it? The Stroke Scar or the Defensive Wound Scar... mmm

So yes apologies for 'having a go and trying to help' the chair has even made it across to the other forum. I did actually 'correct' my mistake before you even bothered to post. Any chance you are going to apologise for trying to frame an innocent man of multiple murders? No doubt will be in the next House of Tenuous Links video, isn't that right Sue?

Are we sure this photo is actually Charles Cross or is it another falsehood pimped by Stow and Co?

[rjpalmer]

The only ordnance map I can find (from 1894/5) shows a small back garden (marked in yellow) and if the line is a dividing fence, it could show where Charlie was standing, with the back corner of the building next door directly behind him on the other side of the fence.

Looking at this again, I don't think it works as described. The railed fence dividing his garden from the next house would mean his back is facing west, and his head east, but then there would need to be a second shorter fence (not shown in the ordnance map) dividing his own garden in half, which is possible if that long house (presumably No. 24 according to Ed) is subdivided. The camera angle would also have to be tilted towards the next house. Of course, who knows how accurate that 1894 map is by 1912, if that is indeed the date of the photo.

And I still think Eduardo should dig up the old fellow's skeleton and set my mind at ease. There was a condition known as 'pigeon chest' (pectus carinatum) and I still think he doesn't look quite right.

[GBinOz]

In this photo (auto sharpened in photoshop) the object in his right hand looks very much like a peaked cap. Looking at the height of his hands, it can be seen that his left arm is pointed back, and it appears to me that his hand is behind the alignment of the picket gate. Hard as I try, I can't see a chair.



Cheers, George

[rjpalmer]

I can't find a Calton Road, Mile End on the modern map so must have been demolished or called something else.

According to an old post by Eduardo, Carlton Road is now Portelet Road, and No. 24 was on the southwest corner of Leatherdale Street.

The only ordnance map I can find (from 1894/5) shows a small back garden (marked in yellow) and if the line is a dividing fence, it could show where Charlie was standing, with the back corner of the building next door directly behind him on the other side of the fence.

He would be standing in the upper of the two yellow squares facing north, herringbone cap in hand, perhaps meditating on a life well lived.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Amazing that you can all apparently see the completely invisible, transparent, imaginary chair on his left, but somehow not see the *totally obvious* Loch Ness Monster over to his right...

Let's focus on that 'chair' again, shall we...?

M.[/QUOTE]

A desperate attempt at point scoring which fails embarrassingly. We had a poor quality, indistinct photo to try and work out. Even looking again at the crap picture it still looks to me like he’s leaning on a chair and it still looks to me like there’s a fence behind him. We now know that this wasn’t the case. So what? How desperate are you to finally win a debate?

Perhaps the mistake is worse than ‘accidentally’ leaving the word ‘about’ out of a book. Or ‘accidentally’ leaving the word ‘about’ out of a documentary. Or ‘accidentally’ forgetting to mention this to a Barrister?

I know what I think.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Translation: "I've been tipped on my arse, and I don't like it".

M.

Here we go….spoon feeding required.

You said:

“It reminds me of the old nursery rhyme 'Let's try and make this man more visibly deformed than any suspect reported by any witness'... A sad ending to that one, as I recall...”

Clearly stating that non-gullibles were attempting to shape evidence to dismiss Cross (even though it’s not required because Cross is a non-starter as a suspect) I never mentioned his physique by the way.

So I said:

“Mind-boggling levels of irony here considering the comedic lengths that some have gone to in the past to manufacture a case against a man who simply found a body just like the thousands of others who found a dead body whilst walking outdoors - none of whom turned out to have been a serial killer.”

Explaining clearly the point that I was making which was entirely fair considering the Mount Everest of drivel that has been written and the tricks that have been used to try and shoehorn this witness into the killers shoes. You won’t find me or anyone on here doctoring evidence by deliberately leaving out important words.

As for the photograph, I mentioned nothing about Cross’s physical condition. I was merely trying to decipher a poor quality photograph. A better quality photograph now shows that it was a gate rather than the fence that I’d merely suggested. I was also wrong about what he was leaning on and what was in his right hand. Hardly anything to be embarrassed or annoyed about considering the poor quality of the photograph and the fact that I was only giving an opinion.

[Mark J D]

Amazing that you can all apparently see the completely invisible, transparent, imaginary chair on his left, but somehow not see the *totally obvious* Loch Ness Monster over to his right...

Let's focus on that 'chair' again, shall we...?



[/QUOTE]

M.

[Mark J D]

Mind-boggling levels of irony here considering the comedic lengths that some have gone to in the past to manufacture a case against a man who simply found a body just like the thousands of others who found a dead body whilst walking outdoors - none of whom turned out to have been a serial killer.

Translation: "I've been tipped on my arse, and I don't like it".

M.

[Mark J D]

Sharing is caring.

My thoughts exactly.

M.

[Geddy2112]

Is there any information on when this was taken or if there was anything written on the back of the photo?

No idea, it's just the full version of what was lobbed on the end of the Missing Evidence. I presume it came from Susan Clapp (Hi Sue if you are watching...) who uses a 'false' name here https://www.eastlondonadvertiser.co....chmere-theory/ in Sue Lechmere

I think it said in dark red sinister ink 'Yours Jack' on the back dated 1910 or thereabouts

[rjpalmer]

I can't find a Calton Road, Mile End on the modern map so must have been demolished or called something else. Would the out building possibly be an outside toilet?



Sorry for being vague but been reading a bit and watching a few videos about Doveton Street recently and correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure Michael Conner said in the Rip #22 consisted of four 'flats' or the like and he suggests Cross had two of them.

Yes Cross' boots are tremendous, obviously not a tall chap. Does it look like the left heel is larger than the right?

Thanks. I'll have to chase that down when I get the time.

In 1911, there are only four adults living at 22 Doveton, divided into 3 households (two people living alone, and a couple). The number of rooms is illegible in two cases, but the last occupant, a man named Arthur Rogers, occupied a single room.

[Fiver]

Ta, Da

No chair, and holding a cap by the looks of it... hehe. I just have visions now of Charlie Boy doing a 'Del Boy' if that gate swings open.

Is there any information on when this was taken or if there was anything written on the back of the photo?