Is Kosminski still the best suspect we have?

[Fisherman]

And the relevance would be ...?

That the intent was to have the public seeing your masturbating. That is one of the two types that would masturbate frequently in public.
The other one is the type that would masturbate anyway, oblivious of where he was and what people thought about it - in other words, a mentally challenged man.

Shawcross, for example, clearly does not fit either bill. Nor does Dahmer, Krajcir or any other serialist I have heard of.

Once again, I am ready and willing to get informed and swayed.

The best,
Fisherman

[GUT]

That the intent was to have the public seeing your masturbating. That is one of the two types that would masturbate frequently in public.
The other one is the type that would masturbate anyway, oblivious of where he was and what people thought about it - in other words, a mentally challenged man.

Shawcross, for example, clearly does not fit either bill. Nor does Dahmer, Krajcir or any other serialist I have heard of.

Once again, I am ready and willing to get informed and swayed.

The best,
Fisherman

Clearly I'm extra dense tonight but how does it change things one iota if other serial killers masturbated in public [your definition of public or some other] or not.

[Monty]

My original question:

Can you think of one serial killer that frequently masturbated in public? I can´t.

Your original answer:

Dahmer, Shawcross...apologies, you said one.

Now stop wasting valuable time, please.

The best,
Fisherman

I'm wasting no ones time. You asked, I responded, you got personal.

End of.

Well should have been, unfortunately you are unable to let it go, despite others citing their own examples, you argue the toss.

Its not I who is dragging this out. I replied to Scotts well thought out post on a different issue, you pulled it back to, as Rob House points out, this irrelevant, and erroneous, statement of yours.

And you shall continue to do so. Fine, just don't state it is I who is wasting time, when you are the one that perpetuates the matter.

Monty

[Fisherman]

I'm wasting no ones time. You asked, I responded, you got personal.
Monty

Nope. I asked, and you responded tauntingly. That´s where the personal element was introduced:

My original question:

Can you think of one serial killer that frequently masturbated in public? I can´t.

Your original answer:

Dahmer, Shawcross...apologies, you said one.

I asked for serialists who frequently masturbated in public.
You answered another question and tried to be funny about it.
It´s there and it won´t go away.

That´s all there is to it, really. But I´m certain that you - after having stated that I am the one perpetuating the errand - will go on doing just that.

Myself, I´ve wasted enough time on it by now.

The best,
Fisherman

[Fisherman]

Clearly I'm extra dense tonight but how does it change things one iota if other serial killers masturbated in public [your definition of public or some other] or not.

The original question was whether Kosminski´s compulsive masturbating, perhaps being carried out in public, would increase his viability as a serial killer or not.

It was presented in a post of Robs, worded:

"If Koz did frequently masturbate in public or in front of us others, this would be the one and only thing about him that might fit the ripper profile..."

The behaviour as such is not something that fits my Ripper profile. But if we had examples of serialists being frequent masturbators in public, it would go along with what Rob wrote.

So there´s the background.

The best,
Fisherman

[robhouse]

The original question was whether Kosminski´s compulsive masturbating, perhaps being carried out in public, would increase his viability as a serial killer or not.

It was presented in a post of Robs, worded:

"If Koz did frequently masturbate in public or in front of us others, this would be the one and only thing about him that might fit the ripper profile..."

The behaviour as such is not something that fits my Ripper profile. But if we had examples of serialists being frequent masturbators in public, it would go along with what Rob wrote.

So there´s the background.

The best,
Fisherman

I never wrote such a thing. This post was stated by Rocky Sullivan. Nor have I ever stated that Kozminski masturbated in public. He may have masturbated openly, in front of family members for example, but I did not mention this on this thread. So again, this is a straw man argument. I have stated that compulsive masturbation is a common trait among serial killers, and I have given examples of serial killers who masturbated at crime scenes and in front of other people. So yes, Kozminski's noted "solitary vices" does match with the general characteristics of the majority of serial killers.

Rob H

[Fisherman]

I never wrote such a thing. This post was stated by Rocky Sullivan. Nor have I ever stated that Kozminski masturbated in public. He may have masturbated openly, in front of family members for example, but I did not mention this on this thread. So again, this is a straw man argument. I have stated that compulsive masturbation is a common trait among serial killers, and I have given examples of serial killers who masturbated at crime scenes and in front of other people. So yes, Kozminski's noted "solitary vices" does match with the general characteristics of the majority of serial killers.

Rob H

Rob!

Totally correct about the origin of that post, of course, and my sincere apologies!
I got it right the first time, so why I should get it wrong this time, I can´t say. Anyways, as I said, my apologies!

As for the masturbation bit, I know quite well that many killers have masturbated in front of victims, over dead victims etcetera, just as there are singular examples of them masturbating in public.

What I have failed to find myself, however, is any example of a serialist who have masturbated frequently in public. Once again, I am not saying that Kosminski did, but this was what Rocky Sullivan (and NOT you) posited as a typical Ripper trait.

I don´t object to the idea that serialists can and often will be masturbators - we know quite well that they often relive their deeds while masturbating. Just how many of them that have professed to being compulsive masturbators, I don´t know - but I do know that masturbating in public is another thing than doing it in private.

There! I think I got it right this time. And once again sorry about my mistake! Once we make mistakes, we owe it to ourselves and the members of the boards to straighten them out!

[RockySullivan]

I never wrote such a thing. This post was stated by Rocky Sullivan. Nor have I ever stated that Kozminski masturbated in public. He may have masturbated openly, in front of family members for example, but I did not mention this on this thread. So again, this is a straw man argument. I have stated that compulsive masturbation is a common trait among serial killers, and I have given examples of serial killers who masturbated at crime scenes and in front of other people. So yes, Kozminski's noted "solitary vices" does match with the general characteristics of the majority of serial killers.

Rob H

Yes I posted that. I'm not claiming Koz was a compulsive masturbator tho, I'm wondering where that ideas come from? Would Koz really he admitted to an asylum for "self abuse". That doesn't seem like enough of a cause to be locked up as insane. What's the full story with this?

[Fisherman]

Yes I posted that. I'm not claiming Koz was a compulsive masturbator tho, I'm wondering where that ideas come from? Would Koz really he admitted to an asylum for "self abuse". That doesn't seem like enough of a cause to be locked up as insane. What's the full story with this?

It was thought that Kosminskis insanity owed to masturbation, Rocky. He was not locked up for self-abuse - he was locked up for a madness thought to be the result of that self-abuse.

The best,
Fisherman

[Monty]

Nope. I asked, and you responded tauntingly. That´s where the personal element was introduced:

My original question:

Can you think of one serial killer that frequently masturbated in public? I can´t.

Your original answer:

Dahmer, Shawcross...apologies, you said one.

I asked for serialists who frequently masturbated in public.
You answered another question and tried to be funny about it.
It´s there and it won´t go away.

That´s all there is to it, really. But I´m certain that you - after having stated that I am the one perpetuating the errand - will go on doing just that.

Myself, I´ve wasted enough time on it by now.

The best,
Fisherman

Damn right I shall. Im not the one who resorted to a childish insult because of what is personally perceived rather than ascertained fact, and nor am I the one who keeps raising the same flawed arguement.

Though, to be fair, historical analysis of your input shows that I should really know better.

Monty

[Monty]

I never wrote such a thing. This post was stated by Rocky Sullivan. Nor have I ever stated that Kozminski masturbated in public. He may have masturbated openly, in front of family members for example, but I did not mention this on this thread. So again, this is a straw man argument. I have stated that compulsive masturbation is a common trait among serial killers, and I have given examples of serial killers who masturbated at crime scenes and in front of other people. So yes, Kozminski's noted "solitary vices" does match with the general characteristics of the majority of serial killers.

Rob H

Not a Ripper trait Rob, we all know that.

(For the benefit of all, Im being sarcastic)

Monty

[RockySullivan]

It was thought that Kosminskis insanity owed to masturbation, Rocky. He was not locked up for self-abuse - he was locked up for a madness thought to be the result of that self-abuse.

The best,
Fisherman

Oh thanks fish very scientific indeed! So are there any stories about Koz being caught masturbating or this the only reference?

[robhouse]

Oh thanks fish very scientific indeed! So are there any stories about Koz being caught masturbating or this the only reference?

3 references to masturbation:

Anderson
Macnaghten
Kozminski's asylum record

[Scott Nelson]

Why do you think Anderson did not mention in public--as Swanson seemingly did--that the Ripper was long deceased?

Hi Jonathan,

I honestly don't know. Swanson may have been referring to someone else (Grainger?), or to Cohen. Anderson, knowing the suspect was insane, and not being possible to get a court conviction, may have simply stopped keeping tabs on him. There is indirect evidence that Anderson thought the suspect had died in an asylum and Abberline in 1903 confirmed this was known at Scotland Yard.

Of course, my contention is that the City Police are the ones who wanted to conduct the identification proceeding, and the MET went along with it, although no one from the MET was in attendance. When the proceeding failed because the witness refused to proceed with whatever evidence he may have had after identifying the suspect, the City Police returned the suspect to his brothers house and let the matter drop after the suspect was sent back to the workhouse-- so any record of the identification event was probably held by the City Police.

[Monty]

Hi Jonathan,

I honestly don't know. Swanson may have been referring to someone else (Grainger?), or to Cohen. Anderson, knowing the suspect was insane, and not being possible to get a court conviction, may have simply stopped keeping tabs on him. There is indirect evidence that Anderson thought the suspect had died in an asylum and Abberline in 1903 confirmed this was known at Scotland Yard.

Of course, my contention is that the City Police are the ones who wanted to conduct the identification proceeding, and the MET went along with it, although no one from the MET was in attendance. When the proceeding failed because the witness refused to proceed with whatever evidence he may have had after identifying the suspect, the City Police returned the suspect to his brothers house and let the matter drop after the suspect was sent back to the workhouse-- so any record of the identification event was probably held by the City Police.

We think similar things Scott, though I suspect it was more a joint operation, with City taking the lead.

Monty