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Is Kosminski still the best suspect we have?

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  • Originally posted by Monty View Post
    Where do you expect it to be recorded?

    And are you expecting a charge of murder, bearing in mind Kosminskis alleged mental state at the time?

    It is pretty clear that Kosminski was going to be incarcerated (if he was Aaron), and indeed he was. You assume they were looking for prosecution which, under law, would not have occurred because, as a former detective, you would surely be aware that the insane cannot stand trial.

    There is an issue with that suggestion, however that may be more down to a religious issue than the legal one assumed.

    Monty
    Well all arrests are recorded are they not so if he was then it would have been documented.

    So how do you get an insane man to the seaside. If he is insane he cannot consent and if they knew he was insane what would have been the point of doing the ID.

    By what has been written it appears the police were disappointed by the end result, so they were expecting far more out of this mythical parade than just taking an insane man and putting him on an Id parade, getting a positive ID and then silence. No mention to the public that we know who the killer is but cant bring him to trial because he is insane no need to mention any names

    When are you going to wise up to this?

    The Met go to all the trouble of doing this ID and in a way get the result they want the identity of the killer. Then they bring him home let him loose and supposedly allow another force to keep watch on him.

    This is all fantasy island stuff and you and many others have been suckered into it and you of all people cant see through it all. Priceless !!!

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00KNRE4NY

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00F4QS0H0

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00F4PH392

    Comment


    • Hi All,

      Just a point.

      Thomas Cutbush was arraigned and appeared at the London County Sessions.

      Although not absolutely insane, he was considered incompetent to plead and thus ordered to be detained during Her Majesty's pleasure.

      Regards,

      Simon
      Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Simon Wood View Post
        Hi All,

        Just a point.

        Thomas Cutbush was arraigned and appeared at the London County Sessions.

        Although not absolutely insane, he was considered incompetent to plead and thus ordered to be detained during Her Majesty's pleasure.

        Regards,

        Simon
        Thank you for that Simon.

        Just goes to show that what some suggest is written in stone in fact at times it is written in nothing more than sand

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
          So how do you get an insane man to the seaside. If he is insane he cannot consent and if they knew he was insane what would have been the point of doing the ID.
          Obviously the suggestion is that the Seaside Home identification happened before Aaron Kozminski was certified insane and sent to Colney Hatch.

          Comment


          • You clearly need to read up on police procedures for 1888.
            As do you if you think that an arrest was necessarily formally recorded in Kosminski's case. The man was, at some point, certified as insane. Kosminski is described as having been "sent with difficulty" to the Seaside Home. We both know that a man who is under police arrest is escorted by the police. Kosminski (as has already been pointed out) was not taken, but sent to the Seaside Home. That suggests very strongly, does it not, that he was in the custody of someone other than the police? Otherwise why 'sent' and why 'with difficulty'? He could have been taken in restraints if necessary. I surmise that the 'difficulty' was bureautic in nature because Kosminski was in someone else's charge.
            Last edited by Bridewell; 11-06-2014, 04:50 PM. Reason: enlarged
            "It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins twisting facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (as Sherlock Holmes).

            Comment


            • I think you are missing Simons point.

              Monty
              Monty

              https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...t/evilgrin.gif

              Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

              http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

              Comment


              • Now can you see that Kosminksi`s family allowing him to be subjected to an Id parade for a crime which if found guilty would result in him hanging

                You are also forgetting the consent issue they couldnt consent on his behalf
                Are you not assuming that a prosecution was the intention? If Kosminski was incurably insane there would be no possibility of that and the purpose of the confrontation would be simply to enable the police to confirm that they had the right man. It would also confirm or allay any suspicions which his own family had about him.You don't need to adhere to strict guidelines if there is no likelihood of prosecution.
                Last edited by Bridewell; 11-06-2014, 04:52 PM.
                "It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins twisting facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (as Sherlock Holmes).

                Comment


                • Hi Monty,

                  Even I think I'm missing Simon's point.

                  All these tortuous arguments to get the Kosminski scenario back to its default position of guilty without due process are fascinating.

                  Regards,

                  Simon
                  Last edited by Simon Wood; 11-06-2014, 04:43 PM. Reason: spolling mistook
                  Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
                    Well all arrests are recorded are they not so if he was then it would have been documented.

                    So how do you get an insane man to the seaside. If he is insane he cannot consent and if they knew he was insane what would have been the point of doing the ID.

                    By what has been written it appears the police were disappointed by the end result, so they were expecting far more out of this mythical parade than just taking an insane man and putting him on an Id parade, getting a positive ID and then silence. No mention to the public that we know who the killer is but cant bring him to trial because he is insane no need to mention any names

                    When are you going to wise up to this?

                    The Met go to all the trouble of doing this ID and in a way get the result they want the identity of the killer. Then they bring him home let him loose and supposedly allow another force to keep watch on him.

                    This is all fantasy island stuff and you and many others have been suckered into it and you of all people cant see through it all. Priceless !!!

                    http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00KNRE4NY

                    http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00F4QS0H0

                    http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00F4PH392
                    I know that his arrest would be recorded, in the arrest book, my question is where would that arrest book be? The fact that no arrest note can be seen in the WM file could be down to the fact he was not arrest for any of the murders in that file.

                    The insanity issue depends on the exact nature of the insanity.

                    No doubt the police would have been disappointed. However, that's not to say it wasn't unexpected.

                    Monty
                    Monty

                    https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...t/evilgrin.gif

                    Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

                    http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Simon Wood View Post
                      Hi Monty,

                      Even I think I'm missing Simon's point.

                      All these tortuous arguments to get the Kosminski scenario back to its default position of guilty without due process are fascinating.

                      Regards,

                      Simon
                      The thing is Simon, I don't think he is guilty.

                      I think Ed, many many many posts ago, is correct. Kosminski is a suspect, but not the best suspect.

                      I've yet to see the best suspect.

                      Monty
                      Monty

                      https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...t/evilgrin.gif

                      Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

                      http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Bridewell View Post
                        Are you not assuming that a prosecution was the intention? If Kosminski was incurably insane there would be no possibility of that and the purpose of the confrontation would simply to enable the police to confirm that they had the right man. It would also confirm or allay any suspicions which his own family had about him.You don't need to adhere to strict guidelines if there is no likelihood of prosecution.
                        Glad someone gets it Colin.

                        Monty
                        Monty

                        https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...t/evilgrin.gif

                        Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

                        http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Monty View Post
                          Glad someone gets it Colin.

                          Monty
                          It's not just me then?
                          "It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins twisting facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (as Sherlock Holmes).

                          Comment


                          • Hi Colin,

                            Because of the reluctant witness the ID confrontation did not enable the police to confirm they had the right man.

                            So the cops banged up Kosminski for life on the basis of exactly what?

                            Regards,

                            Simon
                            Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Bridewell View Post
                              As do you if you think that an arrest was necessarily formally recorded in Kosminski's case. The man was, at some point, certified as insane. Kosminski is described as having been "sent with difficulty" to the Seaside Home. We both know that a man who is under police arrest is escorted by the police. Kosminski (as has already been pointed out) was not taken, but sent to the Seaside Home. That suggests very strongly, does it not, that he was in the custody of someone other than the police? Otherwise why 'sent' and why 'with difficulty'? He could have been taken in restraints if necessary. I surmise that the 'difficulty' was bureautic in nature because Kosminski was in someone else's charge.
                              It would surely be the responsibility of the Institution to move an inmate.
                              Regards, Jon S.

                              Comment


                              • Official record of committal,
                                "... (b) Facts communicated by others, viz.:-
                                Jacob Cohen 51 Carter Lane St Pauls, City of London says that he goes about the streets and picks up bits of bread out of the gutter & eats them, he drinks water from the tap & he refuses food at the hands of others. He took up a knife & threatened the life of his sister. He says that he is ill and his cure consists in refusing food. He is melancholic, practises self-abuse. He is very dirty and will not be washed. He has not attempted any kind of work for years..."


                                No mention of "facts communicated by" the police.

                                Jacob Cohen, apparently didn't think the fact that he was "Jack the ripper" worthy of mention either.

                                Either Aaron Kosminski wasn't thought to have been jtr when he was committed or we're moving into the world of conspiracy theories and cover ups.
                                dustymiller
                                aka drstrange

                                Comment

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