When did investigators start watching Kozminski?

[Batman]

Geoprofiling may have seen the light of day as a branch of criminology only a few decades ago.

The implications of being linked to an area where crimes have been committed are very much older than so, however. It is tied to the subject of opportunity, which basically is as old as mankind, Batman.

It's the same old pin placing on maps but with added mathematics. The attacks are very concentric as if JtR was moving from a central point outwards in all directions.

What's even more interesting is that Martha Tabram's body is in the middle of it all.

Looks like he may have taken a dump in his own yard and realized it was too close to home and so moved outwards to take the heat off.

[Batman]

During this period of 'searches' the Batty Street Lodger also turns up. Bloody shirt evidence and missing lodger and all. Was he the result of the search or not, I don't know. However, it is hard to say they had no leads when this was happening.

I think the claim Wickerman is making that Anderson is wrong is probably born out by the fact he wasn't there and was on holiday at the time and is recalling from memory.

Also given two detectives (Warren/Swanson) had thought the GSG the work of the ripper, they themselves weren't expecting JtR to be a Jew, at the time. Also, there are records of Jews helping officers in the search, even in Anderson's own private memos.

However, Paul Begg questions a lot of this. See ref. 60 (several pages long) in his book The Facts.

I guess we are no the wiser about Aaron Kozminski, however, surely though at some stage in investigating Kozminski they must have noted a Kozminski was living on Goulston St., at the time of Eddowes murder? I think they searched this street on the morning of the murder no? That it wasn't part of the door-to-door organized later?

If so that later door-to-door search may not have turned up Kozminski but the earlier one should have if a Kozminski was living there.

[Fisherman]

I think we already have using geoprofiling.

JtR wasn't aware of the mathematical ways to isolate the area where he lived if he hit in all directions away from his home. It was discovered in the 1989. Nearly years 100 years after.

Geoprofiling may have seen the light of day as a branch of criminology only a few decades ago.

The implications of being linked to an area where crimes have been committed are very much older than so, however. It is tied to the subject of opportunity, which basically is as old as mankind, Batman.

[Batman]

Typically, the working week comprised Monday to Saturday, with the Sunday off, leaving Saturday night open for pubcrawling etc.

If we add Tabram to the list, then the 6:th of August was a Bank Holiday Monday, but Tabram was killed in the early morning hours of the following Tuesday, an ordinary working day. Ergo, Tabram, Nichols, Chapman and Kelly were all killed in the early morning hours of working days, and they were all slain in the area encompassed by Hanbury Street and Old Montague Street.

Eddowes, and Stride, however, who were NOT killed in that district and who fell prey earlier than the other victims were both killed on the night between a Saturday and a Sunday.

So we need to look for somebody who had reason to traverse the district between Hanbury Street and Old Montague Street in the early hours of the working days, plus that somebody should preferably also have clear links to the Berner Street area and the Mitre Square ditto.

Once we find such a man, we have found ourselves a person of true interest to the investigation.

I think we already have using geoprofiling.

JtR wasn't aware of the mathematical ways to isolate the area where he lived if he hit in all directions away from his home. It was discovered in the 1989. Nearly years 100 years after.

[Fisherman]

That's interesting. I read several profiles about JtR that suggested he was working a 5 day week (which in itself is strange because people probably worked a 7 day week in Whitechapel). Looks like that wasn't right at all then.

Typically, the working week comprised Monday to Saturday, with the Sunday off, leaving Saturday night open for pubcrawling etc.

If we add Tabram to the list, then the 6:th of August was a Bank Holiday Monday, but Tabram was killed in the early morning hours of the following Tuesday, an ordinary working day. Ergo, Tabram, Nichols, Chapman and Kelly were all killed in the early morning hours of working days, and they were all slain in the area encompassed by Hanbury Street and Old Montague Street.

Eddowes, and Stride, however, who were NOT killed in that district and who fell prey earlier than the other victims were both killed on the night between a Saturday and a Sunday.

So we need to look for somebody who had reason to traverse the district between Hanbury Street and Old Montague Street in the early hours of the working days, plus that somebody should preferably also have clear links to the Berner Street area and the Mitre Square ditto.

Once we find such a man, we have found ourselves a person of true interest to the investigation.

[Trevor Marriott]

I've never bought into the Kozminski as a suspect theory, besides he was only twenty three not middle-aged as some witnesses claimed.
The killer was also heard to speak English quite well.

No one ever saw the killer, and with that no one could have heard him speak.

There are various witnesses who gave differing descriptions of men seen interacting with several of the victims. Not enough to categorically say that any of them can be declared as the killer.

Kosminski is a very poor suspect, and certainly not the prime suspect many make him out to be

oops, there I go using that term `prime suspect`, change that to `person of interest`

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[J6123]

Batman, two of the victims were murdered on Fridays.

https://www.timeanddate.com/calendar...1888&country=9

Well pointed out Robert, beat me to it...

[Wickerman]

Kosminski didn't live in the house-to-house search area as delineated in Swanson's 19th October report.

We know he lived at Sion Square in July 1890, but where did he live in Oct. 1888, at the time of the search?

[Wickerman]

The conclusion (Ripper being a low-class Jew) arrived at from the house to house search was confirmed much later (after the 23 October 1888 report) when suspicions about Kosminski emerged and it was thought that his family had shielded him.

Presumably you are referring to July 12, 1890, when a brother of his brought Koz. to Mile End Old Town Workhouse for a short stay, then in Feb. 1891 when he was re-admitted?

I don't see the connection between Anderson's claim that as a result of the house-to-house in Sept-Oct. 1888, they concluded the Ripper was a low class Jew, and the activity concerning Kozminski almost two years later. Especially as we are to believe (per Simon) that Kozminski didn't live in the search area.

[Wickerman]

It is not contradictory. He is simply saying it is unusual in general. If you read on more he starts discussing clues.

Are we talking about the same report?

Anderson goes on to mention "unnumerable suggestions" which normally would be "dismissed unnoticed", that their time has been "wasted", and that "unprincipled persons" have "endeavoured to mislead us".
No mention of clues or any sense of direction for the investigation.

Anyway, maybe you are right and it didn't turn up Kozminski. I would like to know when they started watching him. Obviously, if he killed MJK they must not have been watching him.

I've never bought into the Kozminski as a suspect theory, besides he was only twenty three not middle-aged as some witnesses claimed.
The killer was also heard to speak English quite well.

[Batman]

Beware of hypotheses containing an "if".

Okay, I understand. I am willing to entertain a hypothesis or two though. How common was the name Kozminski? House seems to think it is probable this was his brother.

[Simon Wood]

Beware of hypotheses containing an "if".

[Batman]

Hi Batman,

3 Sion Square and 16 Greenfield Street.

Check out for yourself Swanson's delineation of the search area and these two addresses on a contemporary map.

Regards,

Simon

Thanks.

So am I right in saying those addresses are for at least 1890-1891 onwards for a time and that there is no evidence of residence from 1881 to 1889?

That the hypothesis put forward by House is that if Isaac Kozminski of 76 Goulston Street was Aaron’s brother, that this may be the connection to the searches?

[Simon Wood]

Hi Batman,

3 Sion Square and 16 Greenfield Street.

Check out for yourself Swanson's delineation of the search area and these two addresses on a contemporary map.

Regards,

Simon

[Batman]

Kosminski didn't live in the house-to-house search area as delineated in Swanson's 19th October report.

Where was he?