Favoured Suspect...

[John Wheat]

Yet you are doing the inverse and stating the similarities in your mind make it Ripper like. Is that also boring and speculative?

Not really as Abby has stated Bury shows the SIG of the Ripper this is not true for any other suspect nor is it common for someone to show a serial killers SIG without being the Serial Killer.

[Sunny Delight]

Not really as Abby has stated Bury shows the SIG of the Ripper this is not true for any other suspect nor is it common for someone to show a serial killers SIG without being the Serial Killer.

The Rippers signature was post mortem mutilation followed by displaying of the victim. If anything the hiding of his wife's body is contrary to that. You can't pick out the things you see as bolstering your theory and ignore the rest. That is what is wrong with Ripperology.

[Sunny Delight]

I think that highly unlikely. As I've previously stated the Police had no previous knowledge of Serial Killers.

They knew a fantasist when they saw one. That is age old whether you have 21st century forensics or not. It does appear superficially at least that Bury displayed this type of behaviour, from what we know. What have you really got on Bury that makes him a good suspect? He was in the area? An area populated by almost 40,000 people. He strangled his wife and attempted to mutilate her abdomen? Strangulation was Ripper MO but the mutilation attempted by Bury bore little resemblance to how the Ripper acted.

What else have you got? He wrote some graffitti on his wall saying he was JTR? Hardly evidence. More likely the ramblings of a fantasist.

He didn't cut the throat nor attempy significant mutilation. Nor did he display the victim. Let's be honest. You don't have much.

[John Wheat]

The Rippers signature was post mortem mutilation followed by displaying of the victim. If anything the hiding of his wife's body is contrary to that. You can't pick out the things you see as bolstering your theory and ignore the rest. That is what is wrong with Ripperology.

No the Ripper's signature is post mortem mutilation. In the C5 the bodies were just left in the street.

[John Wheat]

They knew a fantasist when they saw one. That is age old whether you have 21st century forensics or not. It does appear superficially at least that Bury displayed this type of behaviour, from what we know. What have you really got on Bury that makes him a good suspect? He was in the area? An area populated by almost 40,000 people. He strangled his wife and attempted to mutilate her abdomen? Strangulation was Ripper MO but the mutilation attempted by Bury bore little resemblance to how the Ripper acted.

What else have you got? He wrote some graffitti on his wall saying he was JTR? Hardly evidence. More likely the ramblings of a fantasist.

He didn't cut the throat nor attempy significant mutilation. Nor did he display the victim. Let's be honest. You don't have much.

And that's compared to who? What suspect are you talking about who strangled then mutilated someone to the extent Mary Kelly was mutilated? The Ripper investigation was quite wide reaching so I would expect the Ripper to be in there somewhere. What fantasy suspect do you have who is a better suspect than Bury?

[Sunny Delight]

No the Ripper's signature is post mortem mutilation. In the C5 the bodies were just left in the street.

And displaying the victim with skirts raised.

[Sunny Delight]

And that's compared to who? What suspect are you talking about who strangled then mutilated someone to the extent Mary Kelly was mutilated? The Ripper investigation was quite wide reaching so I would expect the Ripper to be in there somewhere. What fantasy suspect do you have who is a better suspect than Bury?

I don't have a suspect beyond probably some unknown nobody, whose name was in the files, long lost to history. The suspects we do have are pretty poor overall. We have nothing on most of them and even the circumstantial links are tenuous in many cases. In my own view we are probably looking at someone akin to Robert Napper who illicited the same types of escalation in his attacks.

The Ripper killed Prostitutes because they were an easy target. He didn't have to approach them. He didn't have to pick a location. I would say the FBI profile probably isn't too far out in the general sense of what he was like. Neat and tidy. Odd. Lived alone. Lived in the locality. Quiet and inoffensive. Likely was prowling Whitechapel on various nights and quite often looking for victims.

[John Wheat]

I don't have a suspect beyond probably some unknown nobody, whose name was in the files, long lost to history. The suspects we do have are pretty poor overall. We have nothing on most of them and even the circumstantial links are tenuous in many cases. In my own view we are probably looking at someone akin to Robert Napper who illicited the same types of escalation in his attacks.

The Ripper killed Prostitutes because they were an easy target. He didn't have to approach them. He didn't have to pick a location. I would say the FBI profile probably isn't too far out in the general sense of what he was like. Neat and tidy. Odd. Lived alone. Lived in the locality. Quiet and inoffensive. Likely was prowling Whitechapel on various nights and quite often looking for victims.

But Bury fits the FBI profile extremely well.

[John Wheat]

And displaying the victim with skirts raised.

I don't agree.

[Lewis C]

Bury's murder of his wife isn't identical to known Ripper murders, but it is more similar to a Ripper murder than anything known to have been done by any other suspect in the case.

[Abby Normal]

But Bury fits the FBI profile extremely well.

and bury fits history's profile of the typical serial killer.. local avg joe nobody.

[Abby Normal]

Bury's murder of his wife isn't identical to known Ripper murders, but it is more similar to a Ripper murder than anything known to have been done by any other suspect in the case.

yup totally agree.

[GBinOz]

Bury's murder of his wife isn't identical to known Ripper murders, but it is more similar to a Ripper murder than anything known to have been done by any other suspect in the case.

Hi Lewis C,

Aren't you overlooking Deeming?

With both Bury and Deeming we see the certain murder of family members along with the suspicion of the serial killing of strangers. Bury used strangulation. Deeming used strangulation and throat cutting, the latter being more similar to the ripper technique. Both attempted to hid the body(ies) of family members to escape the consequences. Bury subsequently revealed the body, whereas Deeming never did - neither did JtR. Both fitted the FBI profile. Both were disposing of people who had out served their purpose. Bury chose to advertise with the chalk graffiti, Deeming did not, and JtR's possible chalk graffiti was obscure at best, and certainly not self implicating.

The divergent aspect being relied upon for Bury is the abdominal attack. While I can see a killer using similar techniques with family and strangers to achieve the actual deaths, I am not persuaded that the killer would have felt the urge to perpetrate the eviscerations on family members that drove him to visit such injuries on the strangers.

I see the abdominal attack by Bury as inconsistent with the differentiation between family and stranger, but perfectly consistent with his fantasy of attempting to be perceived as a person of notoriety rather than an insignificant drunken parasite.

Cheers, George

[The Rookie Detective]

Yes but Bury seems to have believed he would have got away with Ellen's murder. Yes why would Bury mutilate his wife's abdomen unless he was Jack?

Because he knew he was going to be hanged.

He could either be hanged and risk being forgotten in history, or be hanged, but not before leaving behind a nugget of doubt and an implication that he could have been the Ripper.

By delberately cutting his wife's abdomen post mortem, Bury is making a conscious effort to try and seek recognition that he could indeed be the Ripper.

Bury uses reverse psychology by saying he doesn't want anyone to think he's the Ripper, but he is in truth seeking the opposite.
It's like if someone tells you not to think of a pink Elephant trying to ice-skate.

It's clear that Bury was trying to capitalise on the Ripper murders, by raising the suggestion he may be the killer.

This was perhaps a delaying.tactic in a bid to extend his life, but his end game seems to have been a bid to secure some kind of historical notoriety by leaving behind a question mark over his potential participation in the Ripper murders.

Interestingly, there was always doubt over whether he actually even murdered Ellen and that she may have taken her own life in a desperate bid to escape Bury.

Somewhat ironically, whether he killed his wife of not is not the most relevant aspect of the case, it's his mention of not wanting to be seen as the Ripper which IMO is the most significant detail of his inevitable demise.

It's also been well documented that when the death penalty was handed down to Bury, that there was a genuine feeling of surprise. It was stated that Bury himself appeared to react in a way that indicated he too was surprised by the decision.

But I believe his reaction was more a result of the realisation that the police didn't think he was the Ripper and therefore had no further interest in him.

He went to his death as just another number among the condemned.

Of course, Bury may indeed have deliberately inflicted a post mortem wound on his deceased wife precisely for the reason that he was in fact the real Ripper.

But it would appear that his attempt at reverse psychology backfired; in the short term at least, and that despite the post mortem cutting of his wife and a mention of not wanting to be seen as the Ripper, nobody thought he was the Ripper anyway.

However, in the long term Bury did succeed in his bid to gain some kind of notoriety, because today we still talk about him as being one of the strongest Ripper suspects.

And so while it could be said that his attempts to be remembered did nothing at the time, he has managed to gain some long term curiosity from those investigating the Ripper case today.

Was he the Ripper?

I personally think not.


However, as a caveat to that, Bury's handwriting closely matches some of the Ripper correspondences.


On that basis, I think there's a strong and valid argument to suggest that Bury was at the very least a Ripper fantasist.

But so was Bachert IMO


There's one thing that is certain about Bury; he should always be considered a viable Ripper suspect.

And while he may not be in the same league as the likes of Deeming and Chapman who each murdered multiple women, Bury still retains an enigmatic quality that should mean he is never written off completely.

I don't think he was the Ripper, but I do consider him a top 10 suspect.

[John Wheat]

Hi Lewis C,

Aren't you overlooking Deeming?

With both Bury and Deeming we see the certain murder of family members along with the suspicion of the serial killing of strangers. Bury used strangulation. Deeming used strangulation and throat cutting, the latter being more similar to the ripper technique. Both attempted to hid the body(ies) of family members to escape the consequences. Bury subsequently revealed the body, whereas Deeming never did - neither did JtR. Both fitted the FBI profile. Both were disposing of people who had out served their purpose. Bury chose to advertise with the chalk graffiti, Deeming did not, and JtR's possible chalk graffiti was obscure at best, and certainly not self implicating.

The divergent aspect being relied upon for Bury is the abdominal attack. While I can see a killer using similar techniques with family and strangers to achieve the actual deaths, I am not persuaded that the killer would have felt the urge to perpetrate the eviscerations on family members that drove him to visit such injuries on the strangers.

I see the abdominal attack by Bury as inconsistent with the differentiation between family and stranger, but perfectly consistent with his fantasy of attempting to be perceived as a person of notoriety rather than an insignificant drunken parasite.

Cheers, George

I suggest Bury couldn't help himself with the abdominal mutilation because he was Jack.