Tell me who JTR was

[Sam Flynn]

Anyone want to throw another hat into the ring?

Just another vote for Mr Nobody. We know the names of perhaps 200 "suspects" whose names have been advanced over the years, of whom fewer than 10%, I'd suggest, are reasonable. Of these, we're usually only aware of them because they were contemporary/near-contemporary suspects, or their names just happened to be mentioned in the press at the time as having some connection with the case. But what of those potential suspects who don't fit into those categories, and whose names we don't yet know? Twenty or so reasonable "known known" suspects are tiny compared with the adult (or adolescent) male population of Whitechapel, which was in the order of the tens of thousands, any one of whom could have been the actual killer.

To help visualise the scale we're up against, I created a document with 40,000 dots - each dot representing someone who might qualify as the Ripper, if we only knew more about them. The document runs to 11 pages, of which this image is the first:



The red circle on Page 1, bottom right, represents the "known known" reasonable suspects. The last page contains about 150 dots, which is about the number of suspects who have since been "exonerated" (or dismissed out of hand!), so we can ignore Page 11. Thus all the black dots, from Pages 1-10 inclusive, could be potential Rippers, and one of those dots quite possibly is him. Now, we would be incredibly fortunate if "his" dot was one of the ones in that little red circle, i.e. that he was one of the decent candidates whose name we already know. On the contrary, the odds seem very heavily weighted against that being the case... but he's out there somewhere, so keep scouring the census

[pinkmoon]

As a Betting man I wouldn't mind throwing a pound or two each way on an outside bet (John Williams) of "Uncle jack" fame . There are some very interesting alignments and timings , even with the small controversy taken on board . We have Motive , Method , opportunity , Local Knowledge , Workhouse familiarity & connection to victims, even some evidence Too !
Make that a fiver each way

Moonbegger .

Evidence?I read uncle jack when it first came out I didn't spot any evidence

[GUT]

G'day Harry

Wasn't he busy playing cricket during two of the murders? Please provide your reasoning for why Druitt is the outstanding candidate.

While think it was someone we don't know about you can't rule out Druitt based on his current known Cricket.

One match was in Dorset over 30 hours later and one was in Blackheath, about a 30 min or less trip 6 or so hours after the event, another claim is that as he played in Dorset on consecutive weekends he must have stayed there which overlooks his work obligations, so don't be fooled by the claims that his known cricket matches rule hm out.

[Abby Normal]

Hi Abby,you don't mention Druitt don't forget sir Melville chose him over kosminski.

Yup. Druitts in the top 10. Along with Barnett and Fleming.

[lynn cates]

knife

Hello Christer. Thanks.

Perhaps you're right. He may have been stark naked, using the knife as a fig leaf.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

How many Romans?

Hello Gareth. Pluralise (nobodies) and I might love you forever.

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

Hello Christer. Thanks.

"Or she met him in the street--in which case it's a whole different ballgame."

Any idea about when she went out? We have nothing solid after BFM. Of course, if she were alive and talking to a bloke in the morning . . .

Cheers.
LC

Given the existence of Blotchy (per Cox) could not be independently established, not seen with Kelly, not seen in any pub or beerhouse, not seen in the streets.
How do we classify Blotchy as 'solid'?

[moonbegger]

Evidence?I read uncle jack when it first came out I didn't spot any evidence

Hello Pinkmoon ..

yes I guess evidence is too strong a word but I do rather like his letter stating he was attending a clinic in Whitechapel on the 8th sept , the day of the Chapman murder . along with a certain Mary Nichols showing up in one of his patient registers along with his experimental work pertaining to diseases of the uterus , his religious background ( Leviticus 7 ) and the horrific similarity's to Kellys murder scene . His probable workhouse bolt hole, under 5 mins from every crime scene , actually seconds from Bucks row ! Not to mention the Knife he kept amongst his prized possessions , which sits perfectly well with every suggestion of knife used by the killer . So yes pinkmoon , this is all far from evidence , But is a lot more than we have against most other top 5 candidates .

One other thing , all of the victims visited the workhouse surgery in the week leading up to their deaths ..

moonbegger .

[Sam Flynn]

Hello Gareth. Pluralise (nobodies) and I might love you forever.

"suche Nullen"... it's in my signature, Lynn

[GUT]

G'day Abby

Yup. Druitts in the top 10. Along with Barnett and Fleming.

Care to flesh out the 10. BTW I agree that there are worse suspects than that three, my only question mark over the Joes is that I can not imagine the police doing a pretty thorough investigation into them, as regardless their knowledge of Serial Killers they certainly knew about domestic murders and her two most recent partners must have been examined pretty closely.

[Wickerman]

..... they certainly knew about domestic murders and her two most recent partners must have been examined pretty closely.

Absolutely, no different than today.

[GUT]

G'day Jon

Absolutely, no different than today.

We know Barnett was questioned for about 4 hours, that is a pretty fair grilling, even by today's standards, I personally find it hard to believe that Fleming wasn't investigated pretty closely as well as the other Joe if there was third. Same for Hutch. Some people want to believe that the police had absolutely no idea how to investigate a murder.

Just like today the police would have looked at each crime as an individual crime as well as part of a series.

We unfortunately don't know what was found out about them, but as far as we know they had cast iron alibis.

[Wickerman]

We know Barnett was questioned for about 4 hours, that is a pretty fair grilling, even by today's standards, I personally find it hard to believe that Fleming wasn't investigated pretty closely as well as the other Joe if there was third. Same for Hutch. Some people want to believe that the police had absolutely no idea how to investigate a murder.

Just like today the police would have looked at each crime as an individual crime as well as part of a series.

We unfortunately don't know what was found out about them, but as far as we know they had cast iron alibis.

You've got it right on the money GUT.
We don't have a great many examples of this, but you can add Richardson's interrogation in the Chapman case. Violenia, who crumbled under pressure, and from notations added to internal police memo's we might see evidence that Packer was brought in a second time for an interview.

I'm sure the police hunted for Joe Fleming, but did they find him?

[mklhawley]

Hi all and Harry D,

I’m not discounting any of the possible suspects discussed. Personally, I enjoy the Lechmere discussions and it’s too bad Jonathan’s not around to discuss Druitt. I can only talk about my favorite, and yes, another Tumblety article is on the horizon.

Keep in mind the only Ripper suspect that Assistant Commissioner Anderson was caught investigating at the peak of the murders just after the Kelly murder was none other than Dr. Francis Tumblety:

The Brooklyn Citizen, November 23, 1888.
“Is He The Ripper?” A Brooklynite Charged With the Whitechapel Murders.
Superintendent Campbell Asked by the London Police to Hunt Up the Record of Francis Tumblety —
Captain Eason supplies the information and it is interesting Police Superintendent Campbell received a cable dispatch yesterday from Mr. Anderson, the deputy chief of the London Police, asking him to make some inquiries about Francis Tumblety,who is under arrest in England on the charge of indecent assault. Tumblety is referred to in the dispatch in the following manner: “He says he is known to you, Chief, as Brooklyn’s Beauty.” Tumblety was arrested in London some weeks ago as the supposed Whitechapel murderer…

If Anderson wasn’t caught requesting information on Tumblety, the conclusion by Tumblety minimalists would have been Tumblety was never on Anderson’s radar screen. Anderson never spoke of Tumblety, just like his loyal subordinate, Swanson.

Not only does Anderson’s request make no sense if Tumblety wasn’t considered a serious suspect by Scotland Yard, we have confirmation from another Scotland Yard senior officer, Chief Inspector Littlechild that Tumblety was a rather significant suspect,

“I never heard of a Dr D. in connection with the Whitechapel murders but amongst the suspects, and to my mind a very likely one, was a Dr. T. (which sounds much like D.) He was an American quack named Tumblety and was at one time a frequent visitor to London and…”

It’s also clear that once the MacKenzie murder occurred and Scotland Yard was convinced it was a Ripper victim, Tumblety - now in New York - could not have been the Ripper.

To not include Francis Tumblety in the top ten for Ripper suspects is to not take into account the people who had every piece of evidence not at our disposal today - Scotland Yard.

Sincerely,
Mike

[GUT]

G'day mkhawley

Tumblety has to be up there if for no other reason than he does appear to have been on the police radar at the time.

The one thing that has always bothered me about him, is that I can't seem to tie him to much mayhem after 1890. I find t hard to accept that if one person committed the C5 [or C6 or even C10] that after MJK he went on to not kill again and again.