John McCarthy

[seanr]

‘Notorious gangster’? I must have missed that. Evidence for all the rest is there for anyone to see - by the bucket load.

I’m guessing that at some point you convinced yourself that McCarthy was a senior figure in an imaginary Cockney Nostra and you can’t admit that you were wrong without losing face. There’s a lot of that goes on in Ripperology. No wonder the outside world perceives us in such a negative light.

The claim that McCarthy may have been some kind of criminal gang leader is not unique to those who focus on the Ripper case though. The historian Dan Cruikshank when writing about Spitalfields has the impression that John McCarthy was in charge of some kind of English/ Irish gang.

During their Friday walk Booth and French came face-to-face once more with Spitalfields gang life. In ‘Dorset Street’ they had encountered Jack McCarthy, who headed an Irish Catholic and English gang. Here, ‘on the west side of Little Pearl Street’, Booth writes, ‘lives F. Gehringer. “Barrows to let” – the owner of all the houses’ in a district that ‘remains as black as it was ten years ago. As the Dorset Street district belongs to a dweller in it, MacCarthy [sic], so this bit belongs to “Geringer” [in fact Frederick Gehringer] an inhabitant of Little Pearl Street.’ The majority of the properties in both these streets were common lodging houses for men and women, containing ‘doubles’ – or double beds – that to observers like Booth made them little better than brothels, so it is scarcely surprising that he should have listed the inhabitants of the street as ‘Thieves, bullies and prostitutes’. According to historian Fiona Rule, Gehringer was of German stock and controlled the area bordered by Quaker Street, Commercial Street and Grey Eagle Street – what Booth termed ‘the Little Pearl Street district’. His gang was, presumably, German/Jewish.

Cruickshank, Dan. Spitalfields (pp. 533-534). Random House. Kindle Edition.

To what extent can McCarthy be said to head up a gang?

I confidently use the term ‘notorious’ to describe Jack McCarthy, slightly tongue in cheek, as Duckworth’s notes for the Booth notes records him that way. To what extent that could be extended to notorious gangster Jack McCarthy, I won't say. There's certainly some rough characters frequently to be found around him with Billy Maher and Lewis Lewinsky hanging around Dorset Street. He employed Henry Buckley, who seemed behave as some kind of enforcer in the Manning case and he must have carried a knife.

[DJA]

Was discussing English history with a German friend ~ twenty years ago ......

Germany was discovered by Germans,then it was invaded by more Germans,more Germans,the French,more Germans,more Germans,the Italians,Vikings,more Germans,Vikings posing as Frenchmen,more Germans ......

He agreed.

[The Rookie Detective]

Oh and Viking of course, but very briefly.


TRD

[The Rookie Detective]

Norfolk was the land of the Iceni, a sculpture of whose warrior queen, Boudicca (Boadicea when I went to school), stands on the Thames Embankment, a stone’s throw from Norman Shaw’s Scotland Yard building. Boudicca carries a spear, and the wheels of her chariot are armed with vicious-looking curved sword blades.

Norfolk later fell within the Danelaw, so its history is more complex than you suggest.

Boudica was a Briton, ergo a Celt

Norfolk has Briton, Angle, Saxon, Norman and even Roman ancestry.

and it’s ‘Boudica’


TRD

[MrBarnett]

I view Norfolk as a Anglo-Saxon enclave.
Rather like Dublin being a Viking enclave.
Hence the name Norfolk.
Gehringer prolly derives from the Germanic "spear people".
We're going back a thousand years and more.
Trust you get my drift.

Norfolk was the land of the Iceni, a sculpture of whose warrior queen, Boudicca (Boadicea when I went to school), stands on the Thames Embankment, a stone’s throw from Norman Shaw’s Scotland Yard building. Boudicca carries a spear, and the wheels of her chariot are armed with vicious-looking curved sword blades.

Norfolk later fell within the Danelaw, so its history is more complex than you suggest.

[DJA]

I view Norfolk as a Anglo-Saxon enclave.
Rather like Dublin being a Viking enclave.
Hence the name Norfolk.
Gehringer prolly derives from the Germanic "spear people".
We're going back a thousand years and more.
Trust you get my drift.

[MrBarnett]

Apparently so. But i thought it seemed close enough that it might be related somehow. Perhaps anglicised spelling?
Oh well.

Weren’t the Wringers/Ringers from Norfolk? I don’t think I’ve ever looked into their genealogy. Perhaps their name did have a Germanic origin.

[MrBarnett]

Wow. I guess he had a real spilt personality then, didn't he. A Slumlord, Philanthropist, notorious gangster, fight promoter, stage entertainer and fundraiser...the list goes on and on...

I'll stick to the likely possibility that the landlord of Miller's Court did not attend Abberline's retirement ceremony. As to Metropolitan PS McCarthy, he's a better candidate for attendance than your Slumlord, Esq.

‘Notorious gangster’? I must have missed that. Evidence for all the rest is there for anyone to see - by the bucket load.

I’m guessing that at some point you convinced yourself that McCarthy was a senior figure in an imaginary Cockney Nostra and you can’t admit that you were wrong without losing face. There’s a lot of that goes on in Ripperology. No wonder the outside world perceives us in such a negative light.

For the record, when you see a list of East End businessmen who have contributed to a good cause and it includes names such as McCarthy, Crossingham, Cooney, Tempany, Wildermuth etc, who do you imagine these people were? (Especially when they are awarded the honorific esq.) Members of the Inner Temple, perhaps? Peers of the realm?

[MrBarnett]

Some Lodging House keepers and publicans, not all. Many in the poorest sections on the East End, including the Dorest Street McCarthy, were under the watch of, if not a part of, organized crime.

And your evidence is...?

[DJA]

"Organized Crime" usually implies Police Corruption. 70%.

Otherwise it's disorganized crime.30%.

That's a mix of statistics,however financial return and conviction rates dominate.

[Scott Nelson]

It astonishes me that anyone would find it unlikely that there was social interaction between prominent East End businessmen such as the McCarthies and senior local police officers. How on earth would it have been possible for H Div. to have efficiently policed Spitalfields without having a good relationship with the Lodging House keepers and local publicans?

Some Lodging House keepers and publicans, not all. Many in the poorest sections on the East End, including the Dorest Street McCarthy, were under the watch of, if not a part of, organized crime.

[Scott Nelson]

What we are looking for are a J. McCarthy and his son S. McCarthy who were prominent East End businessmen and who had a talent for entertainment. Oh, and who contributed to the same causes as people named Crossingham, Cooney and Tempany.

It’s a real brain teaser.

Wow. I guess he had a real spilt personality then, didn't he. A Slumlord, Philanthropist, notorious gangster, fight promoter, stage entertainer and fundraiser...the list goes on and on...

I'll stick to the likely possibility that the landlord of Miller's Court did not attend Abberline's retirement ceremony. As to Metropolitan PS McCarthy, he's a better candidate for attendance than your Slumlord, Esq.

[Joshua Rogan]

No. That was named after a previous landlord named Wringer, wasn’t it?

Apparently so. But i thought it seemed close enough that it might be related somehow. Perhaps anglicised spelling?
Oh well.

[MrBarnett]

Any relation to the Ringers of the Britannia pub?

No. That was named after a previous landlord named Wringer, wasn’t it?

[Joshua Rogan]

Sean,

It’s great that you’ve got your teeth into the ‘Ringers’.

Any relation to the Ringers of the Britannia pub?