Ripper Facts

[Craig H]

Hi Pat

I agree with you that it is more likely a skin condition than actual sunburnt.

If he had travelled from Australia, Americas, etc then it would have taken a while (weeks ?) to arrive in London which makes you think the sunburn would have faded.

Also, weather wasn't hot enough in London in March 1888 to be sunburnt.

Maybe it was rosacea. I also understand this condition gets worse / more visible when someone is stressed ?

Rgds
Craig

[Pcdunn]

Very interesting, Craig.

The rosacea idea for a pale face seeming "sunburnt" could point to MJK's visitor with the "blotchy face". My friend is very fair-complected, and has rosacea which looks like a fresh sunburn (very pink) on their cheeks and nose. It appears during all seasons.

Other explanations for a "sunburnt" face could indicate a sailor or someone from an home in Australia, South America, or the countries of the Mediterranean. However, they might seem to be more tanned, than sunburnt.

[Craig H]

This thread tried to focus on Ripper “facts” (those things more likely to be true).

This includes all victims were prostitutes.

The most credible witness who saw JTR were PC William Smith, Joseph Lawende and William Marshall. The consistent description was JTR was English, 28 – 35 years old, around 5’7”, pale complexion, small moustache, wore a peak cap and was not working class (Marshall heard him say "you would say anything but your dreams" and described him as educated). The other credible witness was the man in Church Lane.

The killers movements on the night of the Eddowes/ Stride killings suggest he was moving towards Whitechapel which implies he lived in Whitechapel.
FBI Profiling tools suggested he lived in an area with Flowers and Dean Street at the centre.

It would appear he knew the victims (even if only by sight) as the canonical 5 all lived close to each other. The witness descriptions suggest his victims were comfortable in his presence.

There is a strong argument supporting JTR had medical knowledge due to his ability to cut with purpose in a dark environment.

Ada Wilson was the first attack

I would now like to add another "fact" (I think it has validity but understand others see as speculation) that Ada Wilson was the first JTR attack in March 1888.

Others have suggested JTR had earlier attacks before the first canonical victim Nichols (August 1888).Options included Tabram, Smith, Wilson or Millwood

I think Ada Wilson is most likely as the witness description (25 to 30 years of age, medium height (about 5ft. 5in.), sunburnt face, fair moustache, and wore light trousers, a dark coat, and a wideawake hat) is similar to the above JTR description.

Wilson's claim that she was stabbed in the neck by a man knocking on her door demanding money was a lie to cover up that she was a prostitute.

The witness, Rose Biermann, who lived in the building, said Ada had frequent males visitors, her attacker had visited her several times before, the man was in her room then left in a hurry, and Ada was "partially dressed" when she chased after him.

This all suggests he stabbed her in the neck in her room.

Ada lived at Maidman Street (near Mile End Road and Burdett Road, Bow) which is a distance from where the canonical murders took place.

Debra Arif's research identified Ada Wilson as Ada Drew - a known thief who suffered from syphilis.

The description of a "sunburnt face" is unusual as it was March in London. Others have suggested he had rosacea, which was obvious as he had fair skin.

My hypothesis

JTR was a medical student or Doctor at a hospital. Ada Wilson's address was close to Mile End Infirmary (what is now Mile End Hospital). The canonical attacks were close to London hospital.

JTR was seeing Ada Wilson several times as a prostitute when he discovered he had syphilis. This led to him attacking Ada and then a broader attacks on prostitutes as vengeance.

He then lived in Whitechapel, and is likely to have known the prostitutes. He would have appeared non-threatening and may have been charming.

The murders ended due to the syphilis becoming worse, or he became aware of likelihood of being caught.

I think JTR was not a known suspect, but an "average" person.

I think he got away with it as police were looking at other profiles.



I’m sure there are lots of holes in the above argument. I’m interested in feedback from others.

All the best

Craig

[Sand87]

In theory a trade for medical specimens. There is the idea that if a person needs a womb in a jar, that person might be persuaded to kill for it.

Surely there are better ways than slaughtering women in fairly public places? Wouldn't you just dig up a grave , rob a mortuary or kill people in a much more subtle way so you could carry it on for a lot longer?

[DJA]

Have a good look at Henry Gawen Sutton.

[Errata]

The first organ transplant wasn't until the 1950's so...what organ trade?

In theory a trade for medical specimens. There is the idea that if a person needs a womb in a jar, that person might be persuaded to kill for it.

[Sand87]

I don't think the organ trade had anything to do with JTR either, but since it is an excuse that's been paraded out before, I thought I'd throw it out there.

There was something definitely about the organs that had him all hot and bothered.

Columbo

The first organ transplant wasn't until the 1950's so...what organ trade?

[drstrange169]

There was a Doctor Neale working south of the river in the 1880's but he seems to have been older and there was a Doctor Neale working in Hammersmith at the same time. I don't have any Christain names for them.

[Craig H]

Hi Dusty
Thanks for that.
Looks like John Orford studied elsewhere.
In 1881 Census, he is a medical student living at Lambeth, so possible he studied south of the river
All the best

Craig

[drstrange169]

>> ... cause of death is “died from accidental injuries caused by fall down stairs" ... Would it have been unusual to have an inquest for this death ?<<

Mandatory.


>> Does this mean the death was suspicious ? <<

Hence the need for an inquest, to determine if it was natural causes (i.e. Hearty attack on the stairs), accident (tripped) or something more sinister.



>>The reason of death of falling down stairs sounds strange.<<

Incredibly common cause of deaths, America alone, 12,000 a year. Famous fashion designer and chain store owner, Laura Ashley died falling down her stairs. One of my favourite 1960's 70's singer's, Sandy Denny died falling down stairs. There an excellent tv documentary series called, The Staircase dealing with the issue.

[drstrange169]

Hello Craig,

I got the info from University of London archives, as i wrote, I don't know how complete they are.

And yes, it is graduates.

Link here:

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=Hi+DustyThis+is+interesting.+What+is+the+source+of+this+image+%3FIt+looks+like+a+record+of+University+graduates+%3F%3F%3FThis+suggests+Benjamin+did+not+complete+his+University+degree.Are+you+able+find+out+where+John+Orford+studied+Medicine+%3FI+think+Benjamin+may+be+the+%22Morford%22+mentioned+in+Sugden%27s+book.+Maybe+they+studied+together+%3FAll+the+bestCraig&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-ab&gfe_rd=cr&ei=I01nV5mEEKTM8gfU4IHoDQ

The only Orford I could find was much earlier,

[Craig H]

Hi Jeff
Thanks for this. Sometimes seems that fact is stranger than fiction - both scenarios sounded like a book

All the best

Craig

[Mayerling]

Hi Debra

What is it about people falling down stairs and falling off chairs back then ???

I've watched too many gangster movies when "falling down stairs" was a metaphor for "beaten up".

Thanks for looking for Ben Neale's death details. I couldn't find anything on Britishnewspapers archive. I'll contact the local Staffordshire genealogy office to see if they have anything.

All the best

Craig

Hi Craig,

It is an old sense of suspicion we all show at times about the "untimely" death of an individual due to any kind of convenient accident. Sometimes investigation will lead to a major homicide case. Two come to mind in this period, both in Scotland.

In June 1889, during the start of the summer holiday season, Edward Rose was on the Isle of Arran visiting a high mountain spot, when he fell to his death. His body was found to have been buried under some nearby rocks, showing a second party was involved. Eventually it turned out that Rose had met another man, apparently visiting the island on a holiday named John Watson Laurie. Laurie, unlike Rose, was not doing very well financially, and in tracing him the authorities discovered he pilfered various items that belonged to Rose. He had also accompanied Rose up the mountain. For about two weeks Laurie was sought in England (where he fled) and he was captured the same week that the trial of Florence Maybrick was reaching it's conclusion, and the Pilchin Street murder occurred. Laurie was taken back to Scotland, and after a trial, convicted of Rose's murder. The death sentence on him was reduced, as the evidence (while strong on theft) was not totally strong on homicide. His sentence was to prison for life. Except for an attempted escape in 1910, he remained in prison until his death in 1930. Recent accounts feel that it was fortunate for Laurie that the sentence was reduced, as the evidence of murder is weak.

2) Only four years later occurred another "Highland accident" case, only involving a "shooting accident". A young man named Cecil Hambrough was invited to a shooting and sports weekend up at Ardlamont by his tutor, Alfred Monson. Monson was a dubious type, frequently involved in con-games as a planner. During the weekend, where the others in the country house (besides Monson and the staff) included Monson's wife, and a third man, who kept a low profile and later vanished for several months. The weekend did not go well, as Cecil almost drowned in a boating accident, and then came a shooting accident (supposedly when his gun went off near a wall he was climbing). The authorities again got suspicious due to Mr. Monson's checkered past, and the discovery that there were several life insurance policies on poor Cecil's life (all with accidental death coverage, of course), but in the name of Monson's wife as beneficiary. Monson was put on trial in 1894, and Ardlamont went down in judicial history as one of those battles of the experts (the crown, by the way, used Dr. Sir Harvey Littlejohn showing the trajectory of the bullets through a model of Cecil's head, and also Dr. Joseph Bell - the original of Sherlock Holmes). However it was so conflicting that Monson did not get convicted - it was one of those classic "Scot Verdict" cases of "Not Proven". Most people today feel Monson and his pal did plan and carry out a murder here, but got away with it.

Jeff

[Craig H]

Hi Debra

What is it about people falling down stairs and falling off chairs back then ???

I've watched too many gangster movies when "falling down stairs" was a metaphor for "beaten up".

Thanks for looking for Ben Neale's death details. I couldn't find anything on Britishnewspapers archive. I'll contact the local Staffordshire genealogy office to see if they have anything.

All the best

Craig

[Debra A]

Something interesting on Benjamin Neale's death certificate from June 1899.

He died at Kinver, Staffordshire - which is where his brother Raglan lived as a publican. Maybe Benjamin went to live with his brother.

Benjamin's occupation is listed as "chemist". This is the the same occupation his father Thomas had when he died in 1886. Benjamin's brothers - Duncan and Moses - also both listed their occupation as "chemist and veterinary surgeon" but lived at their home town of Sherston, Wiltshire.

However, what is interesting is the cause of death is “died from accidental injuries caused by fall down stairs”

The Informant section records “Certificate received from W.H. Phillips, Coroner for Staffordshire. Inquest held 13 June"

Would it have been unusual to have an inquest for this death ?

Does this mean the death was suspicious ? The reason of death of falling down stairs sounds strange.

Any ideas on where to look to find any details from the inquest ? I suspect the records don't exist now ?

Hi Craig

Weirdly, Coroner Phillips himself died the following month and an inquest was held because he died from injuries received in a fall over a chair on June 15th.
I couldn't find anything about Ben Neale's death in the papers I have access to but I'm sure there must have been something reported locally as someone already mentioned.