Ripper Facts

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

Hi Craig

I don’t think it’s a fact but rather a claim, made in 1890 by the reverend at Millbank.

Note that he states five out of the women who were killed by JtR. So he’s not talking about the C5, but attributes more killings to JtR.

nevertheless, it’s an interesting claim. So far, however, I believe it’s considered something of an exaggeration by the good reverend, since none of the victims are known to have been at Millbanks, I think.

He also states one victim was released from millbank within 24 hours of her death. As Debra Arif points out, it’s difficult to see which victim this could be.

The reverend’s booklet is extremely interesting reading about the women imprisoned for prostitution. I hadn’t seen it before. Debra supplied the link in the thread you linked to. So thanks for that

If Debra Arif points it out, you listen.

[Kattrup]

I just came across another Ripper fact on some previous threads, that all 5 victims had been at Millbank prison.

http://jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=10108

https://www.casebook.org/forum1998/messages/3/425860d4.html?1032681317

which suggests they may have known each other. This also reinforces other examples that they may have known each other.
Other option is whether Jack could have met them in some way at the prison ?
Interested in others' ideas ?

Craig

Hi Craig

I don’t think it’s a fact but rather a claim, made in 1890 by the reverend at Millbank.

Note that he states five out of the women who were killed by JtR. So he’s not talking about the C5, but attributes more killings to JtR.

nevertheless, it’s an interesting claim. So far, however, I believe it’s considered something of an exaggeration by the good reverend, since none of the victims are known to have been at Millbanks, I think.

He also states one victim was released from millbank within 24 hours of her death. As Debra Arif points out, it’s difficult to see which victim this could be.

The reverend’s booklet is extremely interesting reading about the women imprisoned for prostitution. I hadn’t seen it before. Debra supplied the link in the thread you linked to. So thanks for that

[Craig H]

I just came across another Ripper fact on some previous threads, that all 5 victims had been at Millbank prison.

http://jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=10108

https://www.casebook.org/forum1998/messages/3/425860d4.html?1032681317

which suggests they may have known each other. This also reinforces other examples that they may have known each other.
Other option is whether Jack could have met them in some way at the prison ?
Interested in others' ideas ?

Craig

[Dan McKee]

The only known facts about the killer are that he:
a) was at the murder sites when the murders were committed and
b) carried a knife, which he used with great violence to inflict the recorded injuries.

The official witness statements, those recorded at the inquest or given to the police, are facts in so much as they represent what the witness said. The accuracy or truth of those statements is open to debate.

Other facts about the crimes, but not necessarily the killer, are:
1. A witness said that Annie Chapman was wearing two rings on the night of her death. Neither ring was found after the murder.
2. A piece of bloodstained apron belonging to Catherine Eddowes was found in Goulston Street, below a piece of graffiti.

It's difficult to even bank the bolded as facts as we simply don't know if the murders were linked.

The facts are that a number of extremely vulnerable women were brutally murdered in East London during the late 1800's and in some of those cases a degree of post-mortem violence was in evidence, the purpose of which is open to speculation. The perpetrator/s evaded capture for those crimes.

[Sam Flynn]

I've been reading about "slumming" - where those from the upper or middle class visited East End out of curiosity. I gather that's more to do with small groups who visited at night and then left the area.

Not necessarily at night, and not just the East End. Some slummers dressed up as locals and went undercover, often for the purpose of discovering more about how the poor lived (Jack London being a prime example), whilst others might hire a cab and go "on safari" at any time of the day.

[Michael W Richards]

I've been reading about "slumming" - where those from the upper or middle class visited East End out of curiosity.

I gather that's more to do with small groups who visited at night and then left the area.

If Jack lived outside the area, I'm assuming he would have had to stay somewhere (at a lodging house or somewhere else) rather than walk or take a ride when he may have had bloodstained clothes.

Was there a part of East End that someone like that would have stayed ?

Craig

There were all sorts of accommodations available in that neck of the woods at that someone could rent...single rooms, doss houses, warehouse spaces, hotels,...

I agree with your assumption the bloodstaining would make shared accommodation less attractive, I think he either lived alone locally, or had a room rented to wash up in.

[Craig H]

I've been reading about "slumming" - where those from the upper or middle class visited East End out of curiosity.

I gather that's more to do with small groups who visited at night and then left the area.

If Jack lived outside the area, I'm assuming he would have had to stay somewhere (at a lodging house or somewhere else) rather than walk or take a ride when he may have had bloodstained clothes.

Was there a part of East End that someone like that would have stayed ?

Craig

[Craig H]

There’s a view Jack lived around Flower & Dean Street.

Alternatively, if he lived outside the area, some say he used a bolt hole to wash up.

What could this “bolt hole” have been ?

Does this mean Jack stayed at a lodging house for the night ?

Or, would some professions (such as doctors, army, police) had some lodging in That area where they could stay ?

Craig

[Fisherman]

Actually, I was going to message you last night to ask the significance of the fish?

The company went into business in 1880, and they came up with the idea of depicting fish on their products. For what reason, I can´t say; Eskilstuna, where the factory was situated, is not even by the sea.

If it had only been about that shark, one could have guessed there was an allusion to the sharp teeth. But actually, from the outset, there were eleven different fish on the products, and it was only after some time that ten of them were abandoned and the shark became the only one left.

Bahco, a Swedish tool and steel company, bought the company and kept it´s name up until the late 1970:s.

[Wickerman]

Errata isn't an expert on knives. Wickerman (Jon Smyth) is.

I think I detect a typo there Scott. I'm an ex-pat, not an expert.

[Wickerman]

Swedish steel! Top notch quality.

Actually, I was going to message you last night to ask the significance of the fish?

[Fisherman]

This is a Shoemaker's Knife of roughly the same period.



The handle part would be wrapped in leather or some other material.

Swedish steel! Top notch quality.

[Wickerman]

This is a Shoemaker's Knife of roughly the same period.



The handle part would be wrapped in leather or some other material.

[Wickerman]

Thanks for this Jon, interesting.
Coroner said 6” knife was 1” wide.
Do you think it was the Liston surgical knife ?
I thought - from your picture- that 6” daggers were wider than 1”
Or were there other 6” knives that were 1” wide ?
Craig

Generally speaking a dagger is a knife with two sharp sides.
If I recall, it was Dr Killeen who first mentioned "dagger". He also described the weapon as some sort of "sword-bayonet". I guess so as to not be confused with the long triangular bayonet which had been the standard issue for decades.
That said, I don't include Tabram as a Ripper victim.

This was an 1888 sword-bayonet, which has a 'dagger' type blade.



I'm not sure we can identify the type of knife used in any given case because the autopsy records have not survived.

[Sam Flynn]

The sections of medical testimony available to us appear to indicate to me that two types of knife were used.

Interesting. Where, do you think, the different knives were used?