Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Strange Death Of Montague John Druitt

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Originally posted by etenguy View Post

    Thanks Herlock.

    Given the above, I am left wondering why Druitt was put in the frame at all - other than two facts

    a the date of his death
    b MacNaghten's talk of him being a strong candidate for the Ripper based on 'private information'

    Those other (a, b and c) events, are speculated to be relating to Druitt but only due to his name already being in the ring. Why did MacNaghten favour him? If there was information relating to Druitt and the crimes, of which MacNaghten was aware, why was this not explored/investigated? Do we need to insert a conspiracy of silence to explain this?

    Apologies for all the questions, but I am struggling to understand why contemporary investigators thought Druitt a possible suspect.
    hi eten
    the way i see it, someone who knew the family told mac of their suspicions. his other circs, being sexually insane and or mentally ill amd killing himself right after the c5 probably also solidified it in macs mind.

    its based mainly on a rumor of course, but alot of the times rumors are true. that it came from his own family makes the rumor more likely to be true than if it came from some other source.imho

    hes a valid suspect, i just dont have him in my top tier.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by etenguy View Post

      Thanks Herlock.

      Given the above, I am left wondering why Druitt was put in the frame at all - other than two facts

      a the date of his death
      b MacNaghten's talk of him being a strong candidate for the Ripper based on 'private information'

      Those other (a, b and c) events, are speculated to be relating to Druitt but only due to his name already being in the ring. Why did MacNaghten favour him? If there was information relating to Druitt and the crimes, of which MacNaghten was aware, why was this not explored/investigated? Do we need to insert a conspiracy of silence to explain this?

      Apologies for all the questions, but I am struggling to understand why contemporary investigators thought Druitt a possible suspect.
      To be honest Eten the same could be said about Kosminski or any of the named suspects. We have no specific evidence against any suspect apart from that they were around at the time and appeared to be of the type or were mentioned by police.

      A lot of this is down to whether MacNaghten genuinely did have reason to suspect Druitt or did he lie or was he mistaken? He went on record to say that he had good reason, that he’d received private information and that the Druitt family believed Monty to have been guilty. Could he have had info from the family? Was there a link/avenue? Yes, one of Mac’s best friends was related to the family by marriage. As Roger Palmer pointed out why did so many people in later years all accept MacNaghten’s solution?

      Ive always been fascinated by Druitt. I favour him of the named suspects but I’m not saying that he was definitely the ripper. Even his death was strange. I certainly think that he’s worthy of continued research.
      Regards

      Herlock




      “ Herlock is the cleverest man that I’ve ever met.” - Stephen Hawking.
      “ I wish that I could have achieved half as much as Herlock.”- Neil Armstrong.
      “ What a voice Herlock has.” - Luciano Pavarotti.
      “ I wish that I could dump Harry for Herlock.” - Meghan Markle.
      “ I know that it’s not good to be jealous but I just can’t help it.” - John Holmes.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Bridewell View Post

        Why would his possessions not still be at the school? If he had died then obviously he couldn't collect them and no relatives had yet been contacted. The key question is surely the reason for his dismissal. The note he left suggests he may have thought he was going mad but what caused him to think that?
        But the school didn’t know that he was dead. Just that he’d been sacked. No certainties here of course Colin but I wonder how long they might have given him to get his property moved? Especially as he’d done something so serious. Why didn’t the school try to contact him at KBW?

        The note might have meant that but it could also have meant that he suspected that he was going to end up incarcerated like his mother.
        Regards

        Herlock




        “ Herlock is the cleverest man that I’ve ever met.” - Stephen Hawking.
        “ I wish that I could have achieved half as much as Herlock.”- Neil Armstrong.
        “ What a voice Herlock has.” - Luciano Pavarotti.
        “ I wish that I could dump Harry for Herlock.” - Meghan Markle.
        “ I know that it’s not good to be jealous but I just can’t help it.” - John Holmes.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

          But the school didn’t know that he was dead. Just that he' been sacked. No certainties here of course Colin but I wonder how long they might have given him to get his property moved? Especially as he'd done something so serious. Why didn't the school try to contact him at KBW?

          The note might have meant that but it could also have meant that he suspected that he was going to end up incarcerated like his mother.
          Apologies. I wasn't suggesting that the school staff knew that he was dead but that, if he left his belongings behind they would surely have held onto them until he or somebody else collected them. It would be rather high-handed to chuck them out without further enquiry as to his whereabouts.
          "It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins twisting facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (as Sherlock Holmes).

          Comment


          • #50
            Where is it thought that Druitt entered the river? Do we know? Not Hammersmith presumably.
            "It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins twisting facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (as Sherlock Holmes).

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Wickerman View Post

              What still intrigues me is whether the Manor House Asylum at Chiswick had any role to play in Druitt's suicide story, the family who ran the place also being of close association with the Druitt family.
              The asylum can't have been far from where his body was found presumably, assuming that the location 'near Thornycroft's' refers to the shipbuilders of that name who were based in Chiswick.


              https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Thornycroft:_Shipbuilding
              "It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins twisting facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (as Sherlock Holmes).

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

                To be honest Eten the same could be said about Kosminski or any of the named suspects. We have no specific evidence against any suspect apart from that they were around at the time and appeared to be of the type or were mentioned by police.

                A lot of this is down to whether MacNaghten genuinely did have reason to suspect Druitt or did he lie or was he mistaken? He went on record to say that he had good reason, that he’d received private information and that the Druitt family believed Monty to have been guilty. Could he have had info from the family? Was there a link/avenue? Yes, one of Mac’s best friends was related to the family by marriage. As Roger Palmer pointed out why did so many people in later years all accept MacNaghten’s solution?

                Ive always been fascinated by Druitt. I favour him of the named suspects but I’m not saying that he was definitely the ripper. Even his death was strange. I certainly think that he’s worthy of continued research.
                That's very true, Herlock.

                Comment


                • #53
                  If Druitt travelled by train from Charing Cross to Hammersmith, what did he do when he got there? His body was found in the river 'near Thornycrofts' which I take to be a reference to the shipbuilders of that name who were based in Chiswick. As Chiswick is upstream from Hammersmith he must have travelled (walked?) for several miles in order to arrive at a point upriver from where his body was found. I guess it's not improbable that a man contemplating suicide may have walked around for a bit before doing the deed but could he really have gone into the river at Hammersmith and ended up 2 miles upstream at Chiswick?. I know it's tidal but the overall direction of water travel is downstream.
                  "It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins twisting facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (as Sherlock Holmes).

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Bridewell View Post
                    Where is it thought that Druitt entered the river? Do we know? Not Hammersmith presumably.
                    This might throw some light on what happened to him and how he died and where he died.

                    It is suggested that Druitt went to Chiswick to visit a high class club for homosexuals at The Osiers, Chiswick Mall, and the home of one Henry Wilson from 1887 until 1895.

                    Henry Wilson was a barrister, a close friend of the Duke of Clarence and a leading member of the Apostles, an exclusive, esoteric and secretive homosexual group. Homosexuality was, of course, illegal and the need for secrecy was particularly necessary in the 1880s and 1890s.


                    Druitt’s body was found in the River Thames at Chiswick that in itself begs a question “Did he jump, or was he pushed”?

                    www.trevormarriott.co.uk

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Trevor Marriott View Post

                      This might throw some light on what happened to him and how he died and where he died.

                      It is suggested that Druitt went to Chiswick to visit a high class club for homosexuals at The Osiers, Chiswick Mall, and the home of one Henry Wilson from 1887 until 1895.

                      Henry Wilson was a barrister, a close friend of the Duke of Clarence and a leading member of the Apostles, an exclusive, esoteric and secretive homosexual group. Homosexuality was, of course, illegal and the need for secrecy was particularly necessary in the 1880s and 1890s.


                      Druitt’s body was found in the River Thames at Chiswick that in itself begs a question “Did he jump, or was he pushed”?

                      www.trevormarriott.co.uk
                      Fascinating stuff. Thanks, Trevor.
                      "It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins twisting facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (as Sherlock Holmes).

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Bridewell View Post
                        If Druitt travelled by train from Charing Cross to Hammersmith, what did he do when he got there? His body was found in the river 'near Thornycrofts' which I take to be a reference to the shipbuilders of that name who were based in Chiswick. As Chiswick is upstream from Hammersmith he must have travelled (walked?) for several miles in order to arrive at a point upriver from where his body was found. I guess it's not improbable that a man contemplating suicide may have walked around for a bit before doing the deed but could he really have gone into the river at Hammersmith and ended up 2 miles upstream at Chiswick?. I know it's tidal but the overall direction of water travel is downstream.
                        I think it is possible, yes. I remember reading that because of the incoming and outgoing tides, the water (and thus anything in it) moves as little as one kilometre a day downstream - despite moving 15k down at each ebb tide, the same water will move back upstream for 14k on the flood tide. All it would take was for poor Monty's corpse to bloat enough to achieve flotation when the tide was coming in and he could have been yoyoing past Thorycrofts for a week (if I've got my calculations right).

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Bridewell View Post

                          Apologies. I wasn't suggesting that the school staff knew that he was dead but that, if he left his belongings behind they would surely have held onto them until he or somebody else collected them. It would be rather high-handed to chuck them out without further enquiry as to his whereabouts.
                          No problem Colin

                          I wonder if the school might have contacted KBW to try and get Monty to get his stuff moved? Could this have been what pushed someone from KBW to contact William? Then again, William said that he didn’t discover Monty’s dismissal until he got to London.
                          Last edited by Herlock Sholmes; 10-25-2020, 08:09 PM.
                          Regards

                          Herlock




                          “ Herlock is the cleverest man that I’ve ever met.” - Stephen Hawking.
                          “ I wish that I could have achieved half as much as Herlock.”- Neil Armstrong.
                          “ What a voice Herlock has.” - Luciano Pavarotti.
                          “ I wish that I could dump Harry for Herlock.” - Meghan Markle.
                          “ I know that it’s not good to be jealous but I just can’t help it.” - John Holmes.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Bridewell View Post

                            Fascinating stuff. Thanks, Trevor.
                            The theory that Trevor mentioned is from the Howell’s and Skinner book The Ripper Legacy. It’s not what I’d call a conspiracy book but it suggests that because Monty knew/was friendly with a lot of upper class people like The Cambridge Apostles (in a circle which definitely included Prince Eddy) that he may have confessed to the murders or been found out so they killed him rather than him being found out and being linked to them.
                            Last edited by Herlock Sholmes; 10-25-2020, 08:07 PM.
                            Regards

                            Herlock




                            “ Herlock is the cleverest man that I’ve ever met.” - Stephen Hawking.
                            “ I wish that I could have achieved half as much as Herlock.”- Neil Armstrong.
                            “ What a voice Herlock has.” - Luciano Pavarotti.
                            “ I wish that I could dump Harry for Herlock.” - Meghan Markle.
                            “ I know that it’s not good to be jealous but I just can’t help it.” - John Holmes.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Bridewell View Post
                              If Druitt travelled by train from Charing Cross to Hammersmith, what did he do when he got there? His body was found in the river 'near Thornycrofts' which I take to be a reference to the shipbuilders of that name who were based in Chiswick. As Chiswick is upstream from Hammersmith he must have travelled (walked?) for several miles in order to arrive at a point upriver from where his body was found. I guess it's not improbable that a man contemplating suicide may have walked around for a bit before doing the deed but could he really have gone into the river at Hammersmith and ended up 2 miles upstream at Chiswick?. I know it's tidal but the overall direction of water travel is downstream.
                              David Anderson suggested that Monty might have visited the Manor House Asylum at Chiswick (where his mother was later incarcerated and died) He was acquainted with the Tukes who ran the asylum so he may have gone to see one of them? Maybe he was staying there?
                              Regards

                              Herlock




                              “ Herlock is the cleverest man that I’ve ever met.” - Stephen Hawking.
                              “ I wish that I could have achieved half as much as Herlock.”- Neil Armstrong.
                              “ What a voice Herlock has.” - Luciano Pavarotti.
                              “ I wish that I could dump Harry for Herlock.” - Meghan Markle.
                              “ I know that it’s not good to be jealous but I just can’t help it.” - John Holmes.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post

                                David Anderson suggested that Monty might have visited the Manor House Asylum at Chiswick (where his mother was later incarcerated and died) He was acquainted with the Tukes who ran the asylum so he may have gone to see one of them? Maybe he was staying there?
                                If your suggestion that he might have feared being incarcerated in an asylum is true, it seems unlikely that he would voluntarily visit one.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X