William Bury website

[Abby Normal]

That seems ridiculously low, Herlock. Bury's the only named suspect we know guilty of committing a Ripper-esque murder who can be tied to the East End during the Autumn of Terror. There are good arguments for Ellen Bury's lack of overkill, and the only Ripper murder that happened after his death (McKenzie) is a much disputed one.

Hi Harry
I wouldn't say ridiculously low. Ive got bury at about 12% chance of being the ripper. Hes in my top tier of half dozen viable candidates and with that group I thinkin were are looking at slightly above 50/50 (say 60%) that the ripper would be amongst them.

Bury has a lot going for him and is the one of the best of a bad lot. or as I like to say-all the ripper suspects are weak, some just least weak than others.

[Sam Flynn]

I think a murder where the throat is targeted together with abdominal post-mortem mutilation must be considered 'Ripper-esque'. If Ellen's injuries had been as severe as Chapman, Eddowes etc. we probably wouldn't be having this conversation. Be that as it may, the fact Ellen's injuries were inflicted shortly after death would suggest an impulsive reaction on Bury's part rather than a planned one.

She was garotted, and the abdominal wounding was very limited in extent.

[Herlock Sholmes]

That seems ridiculously low, Herlock. Bury's the only named suspect we know guilty of committing a Ripper-esque murder who can be tied to the East End during the Autumn of Terror. There are good arguments for Ellen Bury's lack of overkill, and the only Ripper murder that happened after his death (McKenzie) is a much disputed one.

It might be a bit low Harry but I really think that the overwhelming likelihood is that the ripper has yet to be named. I also think the overwhelming likelihood is that he never will. Of the named suspects I’d say that there are a few that can be safely dismissed and a few that can’t be categorically disproven but are highly unlikely. Of the suspects that are regularly placed in the top tier I’d go for Kosminski, Druitt and Bury as the best. It’s difficult to put a figure on this and I’ve got no problem with Abby’s 12%. I still don’t know how it can be said that we can now say that Bury has been proven as the ripper? To whose satisfaction? A few individuals, no matter how genuine in their beliefs or knowledgeable about the case, are simply not enough to make that kind of statement. Fisherman for example strongly favours Lechmere as we all know but I don’t think that he would say that it’s case closed. We have no way of knowing that the murder of his wife wasn’t a one off. He might appear the right ‘type’ but that’s not enough to close the case.

[Harry D]

What’s for the criteria for over 5% then? How do you quantify the validity of a suspect?

[Sam Flynn]

What’s for the criteria for over 5% then?

It's a question of ratios, and how complete our sample data are. For example:



That's a purely illustrative graphic, based on an arbitrary number of 10 "good" named suspects, versus 200 potentially "good" suspects from among the tens of thousands of East End residents we've yet to hear about. The blue segment contains Bury, Lechmere, Kozminski, Flemming... (I'm struggling to name 10 "good" ones already), which is itself less than 5% of the whole. Personally, I think that the ratio of 200:10 unnamed/named suspects is very conservative, and that the odds that we've found the Ripper in the handful of good suspects we've thus far identified are very small indeed.

[Abby Normal]

It's a question of ratios, and how complete our sample data are. For example:



That's a purely illustrative graphic, based on an arbitrary number of 10 "good" named suspects, versus 200 potentially "good" suspects from among the tens of thousands of East End residents we've yet to hear about. The blue segment contains Bury, Lechmere, Kozminski, Flemming... (I'm struggling to name 10 "good" ones already), which is itself less than 5% of the whole. Personally, I think that the ratio of 200:10 unnamed/named suspects is very conservative, and that the odds that we've found the Ripper in the handful of good suspects we've thus far identified are very small indeed.

Hi Sam

I'm struggling to name 10 "good" ones already

heres mine-or at least my 10 least weak:
Hutch
Blotchy
Bury
Koz
Kelly
Chapman
Lech
flemming
Richardson
Oswald Puckridge


Though I admit-last three are a stretch but I see what your saying it is hard to come up with even 10.

[Harry D]

There is a plethora of unknown, unidentified suspects with the potential to be the killer. And the chances are good that one of them was the Ripper. Not trying to belabour the point, but we have a murderer who lived within a 2.5 mile radius during the crimes, left London after the Autumn of Terror, and cut open his wife's stomach. Somehow this only deserves a staggering 5% approval rating?

[Sam Flynn]

There is a plethora of unknown, unidentified suspects with the potential to be the killer. And the chances are good that one of them was the Ripper.

Indeed, Harry.

Not trying to belabour the point, but we have a murderer who lived within a 2.5 mile radius during the crimes, left London after the Autumn of Terror, and cut open his wife's stomach. Somehow this only deserves a staggering 5% approval rating?

Given the population density, there would have been scores, if not hundreds, of likely suspects who lived far closer to the epicentre of the murders than Bury. And, to reiterate, there were no Ripper murders closer to Bromley-by-Bow than Nichols', and no Ripper murders south or east of Bromley either.

As to the wounds, a 4.5" cut penetrating the abdominal wall below the umbilicus, coupled with a slightly longer superficial cut which didn't penetrate the abdomen, doesn't really compare with what the Ripper did to his victims. Victims which he dispatched with a swift and devastating cut to the throat - a technique honed over several murders by the time Ellen was killed; yet Ellen did not perish by this practised and efficient means, but was throttled with a rope.

[Wyatt Earp]

Hi Wyatt,

I'm curious to hear more on the opinions of the two UK lawyers you cite. Can you possibly provide a link or other details? I'm largely confident the JTR murders are settled as well - but I fear most people don't want to hear that.

EDIT: Here's a link with some of the details I believe Wyatt was referring to:
https://www.holdthefrontpage.co.uk/2...ripper-theory/

and

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news...ged-in-dundee/

Thanks for posting these links, 07. I've only read the newspaper articles and don't have anything to add to this.

[Wyatt Earp]

I don't see Ellen's murder as particularly ripperesque, TBH and, whilst Bury can be placed in the East End, he was based in Bromley-by-Bow, not Whitechapel/Spitalfields. Bromley adjoined Poplar, and the districts of Limehouse, Shadwell and Ratcliff (to name three) lay between Bury's stomping-ground and JTR's killing fields. There were plenty of unfortunates/prostitutes in those districts in their own right, and one would think that a killer of unfortunates would have claimed a fair few victims there, rather than venture further West to indulge his urges.

The anchor point for a serial killer’s campaign isn’t necessarily his residence, it could be his place of employment or some other location of consequence to him. There were a lot of pubs close to where Bury lived, but for some reason he was all the way over in Whitechapel getting drunk. He may well have had some specific connection to the Whitechapel area that we simply don’t know about. At Bury’s trial Marjory Smith testified that Ellen Bury told her that Bury had “pals.” We also know from James Martin’s testimony that Bury could be gone from home for days at a time. One obvious possibility, then, is that when Bury was away from home, he could have been staying at the residence of a friend somewhere in the Whitechapel area, and this friend’s residence could have become the anchor point for the murders. It’s also possible that Bury was simply one of those rare bird serial killers that chooses a hunting ground at a considerable distance from where he lives. In short, I don’t see a worthwhile objection to Bury here.

[etenguy]

If you haven't been to the Bury website before, I hope you'll consider taking a look.

I did take a look. Easy to navigate site, not cluttered, plenty of white space which makes the content easy to access - a nice design. As for the content, still reading through but the initial pages I have read are well written, clear and interesting. I shall be visiting again.

[Wyatt Earp]

As to the wounds, a 4.5" cut penetrating the abdominal wall below the umbilicus, coupled with a slightly longer superficial cut which didn't penetrate the abdomen, doesn't really compare with what the Ripper did to his victims. Victims which he dispatched with a swift and devastating cut to the throat - a technique honed over several murders by the time Ellen was killed; yet Ellen did not perish by this practised and efficient means, but was throttled with a rope.

It’s been explained to you that the M.O. of a serial killer can vary among crime scenes, and it’s been explained to you that a signature characteristic can be reduced in expression in connection with the specific circumstances of a murder. So you object to Bury by saying that his M.O. varied, and that one of his signature characteristics, mutilation, was reduced in expression?

[Wyatt Earp]

I did take a look. Easy to navigate site, not cluttered, plenty of white space which makes the content easy to access - a nice design. As for the content, still reading through but the initial pages I have read are well written, clear and interesting. I shall be visiting again.

Thank you, etenguy.

[Sam Flynn]

It’s been explained to you that the M.O. of a serial killer can vary among crime scenes, and it’s been explained to you that a signature characteristic can be reduced in expression in connection with the specific circumstances of a murder. So you object to Bury by saying that his M.O. varied, and that one of his signature characteristics, mutilation, was reduced in expression?

We can use such things to make any number of suspects fit, and we have to draw the line somewhere. Jack the Ripper drew very firm, decisive lines across his victims' throats, and he didn't use a piece of string to do so.

[John Wheat]

But Bury didn't use a piece of string Sam he used a piece of rope. And there is evidence to suggest Jack used a ligature in some of the Ripper murders.