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  • Originally posted by c.d. View Post
    I expect Bury would have been concerned about Stride identifying him either out of her unhappiness about the incident, or because the police might have pressured her to do so.

    Identified him as what? The man who pushed her?

    c.d.
    I agree with you that one serial killer might simply walk away from Stride after Schwartz left, hope that Stride wouldn’t give his name to the police, and not be too concerned about the police investigating him.

    Do you agree with me that another serial killer might be touchy about being investigated by the police, not want to take a chance on Stride naming him, and decide to whack Stride then and there?


    “When a major serial killer case is finally solved and all the paperwork completed, police are sometimes amazed at how obvious the killer was and how they were unable to see what was right before their noses.” —Robert D. Keppel and William J. Birnes, The Psychology of Serial Killer Investigations

    William Bury, Victorian Murderer
    http://www.williambury.org

    Comment


    • For what it’s worth, here is Lt. Parr’s trial testimony about what William Bury said about the trunk when Bury arrived at the police station. Bury told him, “On getting up in the morning he found his wife lying on the floor dead and a rope round her neck; and then he said that he got frightened that he would be apprehended as ‘Jack the Ripper,’ and then he cut up the body and packed it in a box where it was still to be found.” (Dundee Courier and Argus, 3/29/89, p.6)

      Nothing here indicating that Bury put the body into the trunk with a mind toward transporting it.

      A more colorful (approach with caution) account of what Bury said at the police station was published in the Dundee Advertiser shortly after his arrest:

      “After looking at the body for a minute or two he was seized with a mad impulse, and, lifting a large knife near by, he plunged it several times into the abdomen. Some time after this he became frightened at what he had done, and the thought occurred to him of concealing the remains. For this purpose he dragged a plain white wooden box to the middle of the floor and prepared it for the reception of the body, and when his arrangements were completed he lifted the corpse and placed it inside the box. He then put on the lid, but left two narrow boards in the centre so loose that they could be easily lifted” (2/12/89, p. 5).

      Nothing here, either, to suggest that Bury put the body into the trunk in order to transport it.

      “When a major serial killer case is finally solved and all the paperwork completed, police are sometimes amazed at how obvious the killer was and how they were unable to see what was right before their noses.” —Robert D. Keppel and William J. Birnes, The Psychology of Serial Killer Investigations

      William Bury, Victorian Murderer
      http://www.williambury.org

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Wyatt Earp View Post

        Lt. Lamb only testified that the body, like Kelly’s, was naked except for a chemise, “The right leg was broken in two and doubled back under [the] lid of [the] box,” and “The] left leg [was] bent back so that the foot was over [the] right shoulder,” but that’s obviously a sexually degrading position.
        thanks. im having a hard time picturing it. do we know if she was face up or down? I imagine face/frontside up??
        "Is all that we see or seem
        but a dream within a dream?"

        -Edgar Allan Poe


        "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
        quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

        -Frederick G. Abberline

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

          thanks. im having a hard time picturing it. do we know if she was face up or down? I imagine face/frontside up??
          The body was on its back. “The head had been pushed into the left-hand corner of the box and turned towards the right” (Macpherson, The Trial of Jack the Ripper, p. 24).

          “When a major serial killer case is finally solved and all the paperwork completed, police are sometimes amazed at how obvious the killer was and how they were unable to see what was right before their noses.” —Robert D. Keppel and William J. Birnes, The Psychology of Serial Killer Investigations

          William Bury, Victorian Murderer
          http://www.williambury.org

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Wyatt Earp View Post

            I agree with you that one serial killer might simply walk away from Stride after Schwartz left, hope that Stride wouldn’t give his name to the police, and not be too concerned about the police investigating him.

            Do you agree with me that another serial killer might be touchy about being investigated by the police, not want to take a chance on Stride naming him, and decide to whack Stride then and there?

            Hello Wyatt,

            I was referring to the B.S. man after having been seen by Schwartz. If he walks away from the scene without killing Stride he is simply guilty of pushing her. Even if identified and arrested a plausible story would be easy to come by. "I guess I had a little too much to drink that night. I was walking home when this prostitute accosted me and wouldn't take no for an answer. So I shoved her away probably a little harder than I should have. Sorry about that."

            Now given a choice between being investigated and not being investigated by the police I can see a serial killer choosing the latter. But I think the point is this -- Misogyny was apparently fairly commonplace in Whitechapel and I simply can't see Abberline saying "What? A woman by herself late at night after the pubs closed got pushed? Drop all other investigations, men. This has to be our man."

            But as you point out, I suppose that it is certainly possible that a serial killer would go on to murder her rather than being investigated. It just doesn't seem probable to me.

            c.d.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by c.d. View Post

              Hello Wyatt,

              I was referring to the B.S. man after having been seen by Schwartz. If he walks away from the scene without killing Stride he is simply guilty of pushing her. Even if identified and arrested a plausible story would be easy to come by. "I guess I had a little too much to drink that night. I was walking home when this prostitute accosted me and wouldn't take no for an answer. So I shoved her away probably a little harder than I should have. Sorry about that."

              Now given a choice between being investigated and not being investigated by the police I can see a serial killer choosing the latter. But I think the point is this -- Misogyny was apparently fairly commonplace in Whitechapel and I simply can't see Abberline saying "What? A woman by herself late at night after the pubs closed got pushed? Drop all other investigations, men. This has to be our man."

              But as you point out, I suppose that it is certainly possible that a serial killer would go on to murder her rather than being investigated. It just doesn't seem probable to me.

              c.d.
              My imagination must be a little darker than yours, as I can easily see it. Violent people tend to solve problems through violence, they tend not to walk away from things as much as others do. I’d also wager that he was a little soggy at that hour, the pubs in the area having just closed. I’ve heard that soggy people sometimes behave impulsively, show poor judgment and are a bit more prone to violence than others. He wouldn’t have known what the police might or might not do, and I think that would have factored into it as well.
              “When a major serial killer case is finally solved and all the paperwork completed, police are sometimes amazed at how obvious the killer was and how they were unable to see what was right before their noses.” —Robert D. Keppel and William J. Birnes, The Psychology of Serial Killer Investigations

              William Bury, Victorian Murderer
              http://www.williambury.org

              Comment


              • Originally posted by c.d. View Post
                And we have a contemporary medical authority on these cases, having personally inspected 4 of the five victims, that Stride was not killed by Annies killer, or in the same way.

                Hello Michael,

                How does a doctor become a "medical authority?"

                c.d.
                I don't think anyone disputes that Bagster Phillips was thought of as such cd, do you feel he lacks competence or experience? Having said that I will add that I don't believe any doctor can escape his human limitations, and errors can be made.
                Michael Richards

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post

                  I don't think anyone disputes that Bagster Phillips was thought of as such cd, do you feel he lacks competence or experience? Having said that I will add that I don't believe any doctor can escape his human limitations, and errors can be made.
                  Hello Michael,

                  I have no doubt that he was a competent physician. It is the term "medical authority" that I have trouble with. It implies that his opinion is to be valued more than other physicians in the case and that it cannot be questioned.

                  Not knowing how he arrived at his opinions, what factors he considered, and whether or not he made certain assumptions really need to be known. And was he ever questioned by anyone attempting to discredit his opinion?

                  I guess I am saying we should respect his opinion but take it with a grain of salt and don't treat it as the word of God.

                  c.d.

                  Comment

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