stuck in Dutfield's yard ?

[ChrisGeorge]

Did the Arbeter Fraint, being a newspaper, ever print anything about this murder?

Hello Barbara. Try here.

Cheers.
LC

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=6489

Thank you, Lynn. I have just caught up with this, though it has been here on Casebook for some time.

It provides a tremendous insight into the club on the night of the Stride murder and shows how comprehensive was the police search of the club and the interrogation of the club members, which might not be as obvious from other sources. Great stuff. Bravo.

Cheers

Chris

[spyglass]

One question, maybe allready discussed:could Jack have been stuck inside Dutfields Yard when the cart came in, and while he was cutting Liz?
Did he had to wait for Diemschutz went searching for help to leave the court ?

is that a "maybe scenario" ?

Thanks gentlemen...

Hi all,
It has always been my thought that if the killer was interupted by the horse and cart coming into the yard, then natrual instinct would make the killer run further into the yard and stay in the shadows. Calmly hiding behind the gate and then sliding out doesnt seem likely to me...he would have to be one cool character.
I remember the last time I suggested this somewhere on the casebook, I was slaughtered ( excuse the pun )
Regards.

[lynn cates]

thanks

Hello Mike, Chris. Thank you very kindly indeed.

Cheers.
LC

[ChrisGeorge]

Hi all,
It has always been my thought that if the killer was interupted by the horse and cart coming into the yard, then natrual instinct would make the killer run further into the yard and stay in the shadows. Calmly hiding behind the gate and then sliding out doesnt seem likely to me...he would have to be one cool character.
I remember the last time I suggested this somewhere on the casebook, I was slaughtered ( excuse the pun )
Regards.

I would suggest to you that, if it was the same man, he had already been a cool character three weeks earlier in the backyard of 29 Hanbury Street where there was the same problem of getting in and out, or maybe even more so, and he had handled that competently without getting caught.

Chris

[Wickerman]

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"Ahh,...your Arbeter Fraint article?
(by the way, was this paper free?)"

It was provided by Chris Phillips from YIVO. Translation runs between $200-$300 (USD) per page. Article was part of 3 pp.

I'm sorry Lynn, I didn't mean the modern translation. I meant was the newspaper a free publication in 1888.
Was it sold by the Club, or handed out free as a flyer?, etc.
If Mr Deerstalker was a paperboy, to whom was he delivering them at 12:30 am on a Sunday morning?

Thanks, Jon S.

[lynn cates]

small fee

Hello Jon. Thanks. If I recall properly there was a nominal fee--but some were available for free distribution.

Cheers.
LC

[Gene Lewis]

I suggested; not been slaughtered, yet...

[spyglass]

I would suggest to you that, if it was the same man, he had already been a cool character three weeks earlier in the backyard of 29 Hanbury Street where there was the same problem of getting in and out, or maybe even more so, and he had handled that competently without getting caught.

Chris

But he wasnt caught in the act there. And although he could have been aware of Cadach on the other side of the fence..it was'nt quite the same situation.

Regards.

[ChrisGeorge]

I would suggest to you that, if it was the same man, he had already been a cool character three weeks earlier in the backyard of 29 Hanbury Street where there was the same problem of getting in and out, or maybe even more so, and he had handled that competently without getting caught.

Chris

But he wasnt caught in the act there. And although he could have been aware of Cadach on the other side of the fence..it was'nt quite the same situation.

Regards.

Right but he wasn't caught in the act in Dutfield's Yard either, was he? We are dealing with an extremely canny killer or one outrageously lucky character, or both.

Best regards

Chris

[Phil Carter]

Right but he wasn't caught in the act in Dutfield's Yard either, was he? We are dealing with an extremely canny killer or one outrageously lucky character, or both.

Best regards

Chris

Hello Chris G,

Extremely canny or outrageously lucky?

The killer(s) certainly had nerve, however many there were. The luck also comes down to a certain level of competance in that the police seemed to be all at sea at times.
Compare the year long report revealed yesterday about the Oslo/Utøya massacres and how damning it has come down against the police.

I for one didnt think at the time they handled the situation THAT badly until I read the report. Some of it shows shocking incompetance at management level.
I think, like Oslo/Utøya, the police simply weren't prepared and were taken off guard to an extent by the Whitechapel crimes. And again, like Oslo/Utøya, they were led poorly.

Breivik obviously believed, correctly as it turned out, that with planning he could achieve his goal. It begs a question. How planned were the Whitechapel murders.
Thats where nerve comes into play as well, I submit.

Not all can be compared of course. Only parts.

Best wishes

Phil

[Bridewell]

Shabbat (The Sabbath Day)

Isn't Saturday the Jewish day of rest?

My understanding is that the Sabbath begins and ends at sunset.

This is from www.judaism.about.com:

Question: When does Shabbat begin and end each week?

Answer: The Torah describes creation, "And there was evening, and there was morning, one day." Thus, according to Judaism, a new day begins in the evening, at sunset.

You make an interesting point though which answers, I think, an earlier poster's question. A Torah-observant Jew would have been allowed to start work at sunset on the Saturday evening but not before.

Regards, Bridewell.

P.s: There are other Jewish holy days which are also shabbat but, thinking only of the weekly Shabbat day, Annie Chapman alone was killed on the Sabbath. If there are any Jewish posters on the forum please confirm (or otherwise) that I have got this right as I am not Jewish myself.

[Monty]

I may be wrong but Shabbatt begins just prior to sunset Friday and ends when the first 3 stars appear Saturday evening, or just after sunset depending on clud cover.

I have a very good friend who, ironically enough, explained to me last weekend that she couldn't type or write with her right hand as that would be deemed as working.

Monty

[Bridewell]

Arbeter Fraint

I may be wrong but Shabbatt begins just prior to sunset Friday and ends when the first 3 stars appear Saturday evening, or just after sunset depending on clud cover.

I have a very good friend who, ironically enough, explained to me last weekend that she couldn't type or write with her right hand as that would be deemed as working.

Monty

Hi Monty,

It would certainly explain why people may have been working late on the Arbeter Fraint - they had to catch up on everything since sunset on Friday.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Monty]

May also explain the theory Jack the Ripper was left handed Colin.

Monty

[lynn cates]

sabbath

Hello Colin, Neil. The regular club members (anarchists) would not be observing the Sabbath. And that was one point of contention with Orthodox Anglo-Jewry.

Cheers.
LC