Seaside Home?

[Trevor Marriott]

Lynn,
In answer to your post (600)perhaps the following might help.The crimes were common law crimes of murder,therefor investigations had to be carried out with that in mind,and as Trevor has pointed out,e ach police officer would have acted,at all times,with the realiseation that anything he did might be answerable in a court of law.This applied especially in recording evidence,which in 1888 or thereabouts,consisted mainly recording in written reports.So accepting that,it can reasonably be held that if an identification did take place,and grounds established that there was a clear case of guilt against any person,it would have been recorded in writing.Further to that,I would expect that the officers concerned,would have interogated the suspect,and placed him under arrest,had such a situation existed.

Harry
You are quite correct its nice to know we are singing from tne same songsheet.

[harry]

Lynn,
In answer to your post (600)perhaps the following might help.The crimes were common law crimes of murder,therefor investigations had to be carried out with that in mind,and as Trevor has pointed out,e ach police officer would have acted,at all times,with the realiseation that anything he did might be answerable in a court of law.This applied especially in recording evidence,which in 1888 or thereabouts,consisted mainly recording in written reports.So accepting that,it can reasonably be held that if an identification did take place,and grounds established that there was a clear case of guilt against any person,it would have been recorded in writing.Further to that,I would expect that the officers concerned,would have interogated the suspect,and placed him under arrest,had such a situation existed.

[Wickerman]

Hello Jon,

err,,,just how much did Swanson get wrong then?
Because I would deem such information from anyone as unreliable. Place misremembered as well?

Hi Phil.
After all the debates concerning the Anderson Witness on both forums over how many years?, I think there is no easy solution. Both Anderson & Swanson were writing years after the events, memoirs are very unreliable with respect to the specifics.
What they recall in general may be based on facts, but the specifics are lost in time.

PS. Why do it there anyway? There's a police station only yards away! Leman St was good enough f6r Pizer?

I entirely agree!

Regards, Jon S.

[Cogidubnus]

Clearly you have the aptitude for sensible and logical reasoning and the ability to sit and look at things in many different ways

After a few pints, flattery will get you anywhere (well almost!) Trevor.

Enjoy the rest of the weekend!

Dave

[Phil Carter]

Hi Phil

But this was such a high profile case (with the press, especially the Star and the Pall Mall Gazette whipping up such pressure) they probably felt they simply HAD to get a result - any result - as quickly as possible...

The Police as a whole were not as secure then as they are today...many were still harking back to the days before the police force (hence why the detective force were a dirty underhand word, and the military drilling of PCs was criticised)...they were, therefore, probably very vulnerable too, and sensitive of, such criticism...

Bugger me...the glass is empty again...My incipient alcoholism is all your fault Phil!

All the best

Dave

Hello Dave,

You are correct about the Police with how they were regarded.
Our grandparents told us much on that subject!

Two in a row!

Best wishes

Phil

[Trevor Marriott]

Well bugger me Trevor, that's the first time anyone's ever said that to me on the boards so far!

LOL

Dave

Clearly you have the aptitude for sensible and logical reasoning and the ability to sit and look at things in many different ways

[Cogidubnus]

Good double posting there Phil...you're not on the Hobgoblin (at a fiver a bottle where you are!) too are you?



Dave

[Cogidubnus]

A first....

You are correct

Well bugger me Trevor, that's the first time anyone's ever said that to me on the boards so far!

LOL

Dave

[Phil Carter]

Not too early if, as some have offered, that the Seaside Home was an error for Seaman's Home, within Whitechapel.

Regards, Jon S.

Hello Jon,

err,,,just how much did Swanson get wrong then?
Because I would deem such information from anyone as unreliable. Place misremembered as well?

Best wishes

Phil

PS. Why do it there anyway? There's a police station only yards away! Leman St was good enough f6r Pizer?

[Cogidubnus]

The point being that to believe a clandestine ID situation at a Seaside Home on the subject of nailing Jack the Ripper, either the witness or the suspect or another factor would have to be of such import to go to such lengths to start with?

Hi Phil

But this was such a high profile case (with the press, especially the Star and the Pall Mall Gazette whipping up such pressure) they probably felt they simply HAD to get a result - any result - as quickly as possible...

The Police as a whole were not as secure then as they are today...many were still harking back to the days before the police force (hence why the detective force were a dirty underhand word, and the military drilling of PCs was criticised)...they were, therefore, probably very vulnerable too, and sensitive of, such criticism...

Bugger me...the glass is empty again...My incipient alcoholism is all your fault Phil!

All the best

Dave

[Phil Carter]

Not too early if, as some have offered, that the Seaside Home was an error for Seaman's Home, within Whitechapel.

Regards, Jon S.

Hello Jon,

err,,,just how much did Swanson get wrong then?
Because I would deem such information from anyone as unreliable. Place misremembered as well?

Best wishes

Phil

PS. Why do it there anyway? There's a police station only yards away! Leman St was good enough f6r Pizer?

[Trevor Marriott]

But I'm not necessarily supporting anyone else's views Trevor...just casting around for ideas about what this little mystery just might be really about...and I'm certainly not yet ready to accept the witness was Lawende...Heck I'm not even sure who the suspect might be (with all due respect to Kominski fans) but until I know more, I'm not prepared to rule him out either.

I don't suppose for a moment that a confrontation ID would be enough to secure a conviction - but at least they'd KNOW - and if the guy was clearly nuts then a conviction didn't enter into it anyway...a commital might though!

Every good wish

Dave

You are correct and I have previoulsy stated that was another option open to the police if any ID took place, clearly they didnt deem him mad, so that in itseslf kicks a big hole in the mad polish jew theory

[Trevor Marriott]

Not too early if, as some have offered, that the Seaside Home was an error for Seaman's Home, within Whitechapel.

Regards, Jon S.

Well then it all comes back to the ID involving Sadler.

As Phil stated none of the witnesses as known saw anything of any evidential value.

Look at it another way if anyone of those went on an ID parade and lets say picked someone out, what would that prove.

It would prove that that the suspect identified was seen in company with a victim prior to their death. It wouldnt prove that person was the killer.

When confronted the suspect could easily say "yes it was me but I spoke to her and then left her and when i did she was still alive."

Without any addittional corroboration no case to answer

[Phil Carter]

Hello Dave,

The point being that to believe a clandestine ID situation at a Seaside Home on the subject of nailing Jack the Ripper, either the witness or the suspect or another factor would have to be of such import to go to such lengths to start with?

The only way one can disprove the veracity of the marginalia is to show other methodology used in similar situations (ID'ing JTR) showing the unlikelyhood of such actions, and awaiting some sort of example that the or any Seaside Home was used for such, because when all is said and done, the writer may just have been making the whole thing up for his own amusement! We dont know that either do we?

Havent moved yet, still packing away things! Hope you are well too!

Best wishes

Phil

[Cogidubnus]

Not too early if, as some have offered, that the Seaside Home was an error for Seaman's Home, within Whitechapel.

I certainly wouldn't preclude that either Jon!

Cheers (says he broaching another tin of Hobgoblin)

Dave