The masonic annulment of the marriage, triagonal perfection and the killer.

[Herlock Sholmes]

The lighting in Whitechapel was poor at night especially down alleys where there was no lighting at all. Some streets were very poorly lit and many complaints were lodged during the ripper murders. The gas lamps were poor, very poor and it's a well known fact.
So why make out things were different? Just to back up your own arguments?
The previous post has just said the weather was great when the whole period was wet and drizzle for most of the murders?
So to ID the images, I've put you in the same situation as they faced back then, poorly lit streets, drizzle and a bit of smog floating about.
If you can't ID them both then just say so.

You haven’t put them in the same condition. It wasn’t that dark. People would have been walking into each other.

Why should I or anyone else be able to ID someone from a silhouette?

[Elamarna]

Never said there was fog, I said misty along with smog which is a mixture of smoke and mist. The murders took place over several weeks, August was a wash out but rain was present for much of the murders. MN it rained, AC was showers, ES and CE both raining/showers.
The weather for the year in general was terrible with flooding in the east end during August.

Your posts clearly implied that mist and smog would have made it difficult to view, however, the records clearly indicate that the nights of the murders were clear.

That it rained was not mentioned, please do not attempt to move the goalposgoals.

[Rex mundi]

I’m sorry Rex but you can’t expect to get away with that one. The light was sufficiently good for Lawende to see the two people across the road.

Why are you reluctant to reveal the actual pictures in full light? I’ve provided actual photographs of a Victorian policeman’s helmet and a real Deerstalker hat proving that they cannot be mistaken. You’ve provided two undisclosed silhouettes.

The lighting in Whitechapel was poor at night especially down alleys where there was no lighting at all. Some streets were very poorly lit and many complaints were lodged during the ripper murders. The gas lamps were poor, very poor and it's a well known fact.
So why make out things were different? Just to back up your own arguments?
The previous post has just said the weather was great when the whole period was wet and drizzle for most of the murders?
So to ID the images, I've put you in the same situation as they faced back then, poorly lit streets, drizzle and a bit of smog floating about.
If you can't ID them both then just say so.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Herlock,

You might recall that Smith described the hat worn by Parcelman as a hard felt deerstalker. Jon's (Wickerman) post #11 is of interest in this thread:

https://forum.casebook.org/forum/ripper-discussions/general-discussion/748021-other-attacks-man-wearing-deerstalker-hat

Cheers, George

Cheers George.

[Herlock Sholmes]

One would assume the killer knew she was at the station because the chances of being released and into the arms of the ripper are slim to zero.

Repetition of an opinion doesn’t make it true. The ‘chances’ of her being released and then killed are not unlikely in the least.

Would the ripper hang around a police station for random prostitutes to emerge then murder them in a place full of police without being scared of detection?
I doubt it very much.

This is a straw man argument because no one is suggesting this apart from you. She left the police station, ended up walking to Mitre Square where she ran into her killer. It’s what serial killers do.

He can choose the whole of the east end, hundreds of random prostitutes wondering the streets ready to be picked up yet he stalks one coming out of a police station?
He must have been near the police station to spot her in the first place.

This is such poor reasoning Rex. Surely you can see this?

My own personal belief is that at least one of them is in a police uniform or indeed a policeman himself involved.

Bearing in mind that these police officers came from the same station and would have known each other you don’t think it would have been a bit of a risk for a Constable to have seen a complete stranger in a uniform walking the beat?

So if you could tell me from the image I posted which is the deer stalker and which is a bobby, or are they both deer stalkers or both bobby's?
If you can nail it then I'll believe anyone can spot the difference in the dark.

It’s a pointless trick test. You can find a silhouette that looks like a man but it’s actually a chimp or a dog. Look at the actual photographs I’ve provided. Not remotely similar.

[Rex mundi]

Indeed the weather reports are clear, we have some on this forum.
There was no fog on any of the nights a murder occurred, that's one of those myths perpetuated by film.

Never said there was fog, I said misty along with smog which is a mixture of smoke and mist. The murders took place over several weeks, August was a wash out but rain was present for much of the murders. MN it rained, AC was showers, ES and CE both raining/showers.
The weather for the year in general was terrible with flooding in the east end during August.

[GBinOz]

Yes. The two couldn’t be mistaken.

Victorian policeman’s helmet.

https://www.google.com/search?q=victorian+policeman%27s+he%3Bmet&rlz=1C9BKJA_enGB704GB704&oq=victorian+policeman%27s+he%3Bmet&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIHCAEQABiABDIICAIQABgWGB4yCAgDEAAYFhgeMggIBBAAGBYYHjIICAUQABgWGB4yCAgGEAAYFhgeMggIBxAAGBYYHjIICAgQABgWGB4yCAgJEAAYFhge0gEIOTI2N2owajeoAgCwAgA&hl=en-GB&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#vhid=ybARECGUn35nSM&vssid=l

Deerstalker.

https://www.google.com/search?q=man+wearing+deerstalker+hat&sca_esv=594483408&rlz=1C9BKJA_enGB704GB704&hl=en-GB&sxsrf=AM9HkKkQlLfHRkb53XpTNt_8ey2QAjs_0g%3A1703884437771&ei=lTaPZbDTLt-dhbIP8vC8qAs&oq=man+wearing+deerstalker+hat&gs_lp=EhNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwIhttYW4gd2VhcmluZyBkZWVyc3RhbGtlciBoYXQyCBAAGIAEGKIEMggQABiABBiiBEjlLlC5EFjIKXABeAGQAQCYAWmgAdMHqgEEMTAuMrgBA8gBAPgBAcICChAAGEcY1gQYsAPCAg0QABiABBiKBRhDGLADwgIHECMYsAIYJ8ICBxAAGIAEGA3CAgsQABiABBiKBRiGA8ICCBAAGB4YDxgKwgIEECEYCuIDBBgAIEGIBgGQBhE&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp#vhid=uo1HMTpMFtTQJM&vssid=l

Not even remotely similar.

Hi Herlock,

You might recall that Smith described the hat worn by Parcelman as a hard felt deerstalker. Jon's (Wickerman) post #11 is of interest in this thread:

https://forum.casebook.org/forum/ripper-discussions/general-discussion/748021-other-attacks-man-wearing-deerstalker-hat

Cheers, George

[Herlock Sholmes]

There is no full light in the streets at night in Whitechapel, look at the weather forecast for that period, you should know how it was. The smog was a real problem back then, sometimes thick and choking. The street lighting was poor to barely usable in those conditions.
The best you'll get from 30 to 50 yards is what I've shown you. Maybe a little detail at 10 to 20 yards but not much in those conditions.
Tell me who the figures are, you're best guess even.

I’m sorry Rex but you can’t expect to get away with that one. The light was sufficiently good for Lawende to see the two people across the road.

Why are you reluctant to reveal the actual pictures in full light? I’ve provided actual photographs of a Victorian policeman’s helmet and a real Deerstalker hat proving that they cannot be mistaken. You’ve provided two undisclosed silhouettes.

[jmenges]

Again, at which murder location was it so dark that people appeared completely black against nearly black?
Or, am I right to say you’re just making **** up?

JM

[Rex mundi]

No one dare have a guess and I'll tell you why. Because it proves that no one knows the difference between a deer stalker and a bobby's helmet in very poorly lit conditions. If you guess wrong it will prove how difficult it really is at night to correctly ID people.
That was the point of the image.
That is why there are so many deer stalker stories emerging from many witnesses. Its human nature not to assume its the police, so the mind goes to the same shape that is not the police - a deer stalker.

[Elamarna]

There is no full light in the streets at night in Whitechapel, look at the weather forecast for that period, you should know how it was. The smog was a real problem back then, sometimes thick and choking. The street lighting was poor to barely usable in those conditions.
The best you'll get from 30 to 50 yards is what I've shown you. Maybe a little detail at 10 to 20 yards but not much in those conditions.
Tell me who the figures are, you're best guess even.

Indeed the weather reports are clear, we have some on this forum.
There was no fog on any of the nights a murder occurred, that's one of those myths perpetuated by film.

[Rex mundi]

Show us the pictures in full light.

There is no full light in the streets at night in Whitechapel, look at the weather forecast for that period, you should know how it was. The smog was a real problem back then, sometimes thick and choking. The street lighting was poor to barely usable in those conditions.
The best you'll get from 30 to 50 yards is what I've shown you. Maybe a little detail at 10 to 20 yards but not much in those conditions.
Tell me who the figures are, you're best guess even.

[jmenges]

Can you ID them, just give it a shot.

Yes that’s obviously Prince Eddy on the left and J.K. Stephen on the right.
Congratulations, you’ve solved it.

JM

[Elamarna]

Just to make it clear, here is the sketch of the murder scene,

https://forum.casebook.org/forum/ripper-discussions/victims/catherine-eddowes/784175-kidney-from-hell?p=784373#post784373

[Rex mundi]

LOL. Which crime scene are these stationary, pitch black silhouettes supposed to be at?
And did the Bobby remove the metal badge from his helmet?

JM

Lets just say you are in a poorly lit part of Whitechapel, its misty, there's a bit of smog about and you see those dark figures with a prostitute over the road.
Can you ID them, just give it a shot.