Coincidence?

[Joshua Rogan]

While we are on pawn tickets,Fashion Street with The Queens Head on the corner of Commercial Street ..... where Stride drank with Tanner and Hutchinson's police statement was altered so that he saw Mary Kelly with "A man" outside ...... etc ...... guess where 52 Whites Row was?

Across the road and six doors from the Jewish soup kitchen.

Another coincidence.

Can you point out where no.52 is, I'm having trouble finding anywhere above 36 in White's Row.

[Sam Flynn]

Did she know Mary Jane Kelly, at least in passing, and was attempting to give her name and address simply our of embarrassment at not have a fixed abode?

If she was embarrassed about being homeless, which is a good suggestion and quite possible, she could have made up any name at random... as I believe she did. It's not as if pawnbrokers would, or even could, run an identity check on their customers' contact details. As long as Eddowes produced that ticket to reclaim the boots, it didn't matter whose name or address was on it, or whether the details were fake.

[DJA]

"Fashion Street" is not "the rear of the building that included 32 Flower and Dean Street".

If you consult a Goads Map,there is no fence between the building and 6 Fashion Street's Jews Soup Kitchen.

One could walk right in,sit right down.

[DJA]

While we are on pawn tickets,Fashion Street with The Queens Head on the corner of Commercial Street ..... where Stride drank with Tanner and Hutchinson's police statement was altered so that he saw Mary Kelly with "A man" outside ...... etc ...... guess where 52 Whites Row was?

Across the road and six doors from the Jewish soup kitchen.

Another coincidence.

[Losmandris]

I understand why Kate gave the police a false name, but why give a false name to a pawnbroker? I suspect the false address was merely that she had no established address. Did she know Mary Jane Kelly, at least in passing, and was attempting to give her name and address simply our of embarrassment at not have a fixed abode?

The question is did she ever intend to get the boots back?

Tristan

[etenguy]

Another thing about the pawn tickets... it was the pawnbroker, not the police, who was given the "Jane Kelly, 6 Dorset Street" details. If that name and address were in any way significant, why did Eddowes choose to give that information to a mere pawnbroker? Did she believe that she might "disappear" after selling the boots? I doubt it.

I understand why Kate gave the police a false name, but why give a false name to a pawnbroker? I suspect the false address was merely that she had no established address. Did she know Mary Jane Kelly, at least in passing, and was attempting to give her name and address simply our of embarrassment at not have a fixed abode?

[Michael W Richards]

She lived at #14.

Ah...I recall some Ripper connective thread with #6, thought it might have been Corrie. Was it Sarah? Sorry...seniors moment.

[Abby Normal]

I still don't see where the evidence is, that these two knew each other? How many thousand people lived in the area at the time? Statistically, the odds that any of these five knew each other must be minute.

Just because it makes for a good story or fits into some theory does not make it true. There is simply no real evidence. Until some is uncovered it must be assumed that they did not know each other.

Tristan

exactly Los. its just people making stuff up for some preconceived conspiracy/theory. no evidence whatsoever the victims knew each other.
and even if they did so what? still means nothing.

[Michael W Richards]

Why should she disappear? And, if she did, why leave a trail that could only be stitched together if it occurred to someone to combine the false name/address given to the police with the false name/address on the pawn ticket? What were they to make of the details on the other pawn ticket in Eddowes' possession, which would assuredly have thrown the curve-ball of "Emily Birrell, 52 Whites Row" into the mix?

Another thing about the pawn tickets... it was the pawnbroker, not the police, who was given the "Jane Kelly, 6 Dorset Street" details. If that name and address were in any way significant, why did Eddowes choose to give that information to a mere pawnbroker? Did she believe that she might "disappear" after selling the boots? I doubt it.

Bear in mind that, if she'd succeeded in obtaining the money to buy the boots back - which was possible, at least - then she'd have handed over that ticket at the counter and we'd never have known about her having used "Jane Kelly, 6 Dorset Street" at all. Assuming she'd still gone on to be murdered, all we'd have had was "Mary Ann Kelly, 6 Fashion Street" and "Emily Birrell, 52 Whites Row". Not many breadcrumbs leading to the Miller's Court victim there.

The name she gave for the boots was on the ticket, so possibly it was intended to do more than misinform the pawnbroker, it might have been, as I said, breadcrumbs. The possibility of disappearing that I mentioned is because if she did intend to meet someone about getting some money to keep quiet about someone she claimed she believed was responsible for the recent murders, instead of going to the police or a vigilance committee for a reward, then she would know that who she was dealing with was dangerous and she was vulnerable, that she was in essence attempting to extort money from him/they. Poke the bear and see what you get...I think she knew what kind of danger she was putting herself in...and I believe so did Kelly.

[Losmandris]

Exactly, Packer. The City Missionary said Mary came to their meetings and he "rescued" one of her friends. A Salvation Army Captain also said Mary came to a service. Mary made herself known and was very memorable. I still remember the standout from when I did some volunteer missionary work among the homeless. As for Catherine: if Mary didn't know her real last name, would she have even recognized "Kate" or "Catherine" or "Mary Ann" from the newspaper descriptions even if she knew her?

I still don't see where the evidence is, that these two knew each other? How many thousand people lived in the area at the time? Statistically, the odds that any of these five knew each other must be minute.

Just because it makes for a good story or fits into some theory does not make it true. There is simply no real evidence. Until some is uncovered it must be assumed that they did not know each other.

Tristan

[Sam Flynn]

As I said Sam, if she was to disappear when she heads off to her "meeting"

Why should she disappear? And, if she did, why leave a trail that could only be stitched together if it occurred to someone to combine the false name/address given to the police with the false name/address on the pawn ticket? What were they to make of the details on the other pawn ticket in Eddowes' possession, which would assuredly have thrown the curve-ball of "Emily Birrell, 52 Whites Row" into the mix?

Another thing about the pawn tickets... it was the pawnbroker, not the police, who was given the "Jane Kelly, 6 Dorset Street" details. If that name and address were in any way significant, why did Eddowes choose to give that information to a mere pawnbroker? Did she believe that she might "disappear" after selling the boots? I doubt it.

Bear in mind that, if she'd succeeded in obtaining the money to buy the boots back - which was possible, at least - then she'd have handed over that ticket at the counter and we'd never have known about her having used "Jane Kelly, 6 Dorset Street" at all. Assuming she'd still gone on to be murdered, all we'd have had was "Mary Ann Kelly, 6 Fashion Street" and "Emily Birrell, 52 Whites Row". Not many breadcrumbs leading to the Miller's Court victim there.

[Sam Flynn]

Didnt Corrie Maxwell live at #6...

She lived at #14.

[Michael W Richards]

Again, she didn't say "blank 6" Dorset Street, just "6 Dorset Street". She also gave "6 Fashion Street" as her address on the previous day, and a different name.



Even the coincidence is hardly worth writing home about. Both the names she gave were extremely common, both streets were renowned for their doss-houses, her boyfriend's name was Kelly, and she was known to others by the name of Kelly.

If Kate wanted to "reveal" anything about a link to Mary Jane Kelly, then why didn't she use that name, and why didn't she give her address as Miller's Court? What on earth was the point of "implicating" a real person in the trifling acts of pawning of a pair of boots and being drunk on the streets? And if, for some utterly unfathomable reason, she wanted to "implicate" the real Mary Jane Kelly of 13 Miller's Court, why be so cryptic about it?

This conspiratorial woo-woo makes no sense whatsoever.

As I said Sam, if she was to disappear when she heads off to her "meeting" then someone like Kelly for example might follow those breadcrumbs to Fashion St, then Dorset..where he may have then learned of the actual Mary Jane Kelly in 26 Dorset St. Didnt Corrie Maxwell live at #6...and she claimed she knew Mary. A direct clue might endanger Mary. Again, one must presume she did know Mary by the choices in aliases for this to be a workable concept.

[DJA]

"Fashion Street" is not "the rear of the building that included 32 Flower and Dean Street".

The Jewish soup kitchen complex around the admin at 6 Fashion Street is certainly at the rear of the building that housed 32 Flower and Dean Street where Stride resided.
Clearly visible from any upstairs rear window and vice versa.
Try looking at a map.

Frank Carter as BS Man?

By coincidence ..... the Royal Engineers was Warren's old outfit.

[DJA]

There was no Mary Jane Kelly.

However there was a local 29 year old Mary Ann Kelly with a family that fits Barnett's description.