Coincidence?

[DJA]

Ironically his surname was Woodward and he initially fronted a band as Tommy Scott.

[packers stem]

Ah, I remember now, Mary Ann Connolly, otherwise known as Pearly Poll! So Catherine's alias of "Mary Ann Kelly", also corresponds in two names to someone who wasn't a victim of anyone, although was out with Martha Tabram on the night she was killed. And of course we have Mary Ann Nichols, the first of the C5. The name "Mary" seems quite common, and the combination "Mary Ann" seems quite common too, and not just common with victims, but with non-victims as well. Which is what you would expect to find if Catherine's choice of alias was just to pick a common random name, making it a coincidence. A bit of a spooky one, but a coincidence nonetheless.

- Jeff

People like to make a lot of the Christian names .

Forget Irrelevant middle names
The combination of first name and surname is what matters

Tom is a very common name
as is Jones

Put the two together and many will immediately think of a welsh singer ....
If you want to find comparisons the surname and first name are the essential ingredients

[packers stem]

This is an extract from a post made by Wolf Vanderlinden (post #34 in the 2009 thread - Kate's choice of "Mary Ann Kelly"

I found this information interesting.

Not sure why .
The two early press reports were just about an assumption because she was identified by Kelly .
Years ago people made similar assumptions about my ex having my surname, they were wrong.

The start of the inquest made the same incorrect assumption hence the official inquest title being also incorrect .

This was rectified by the testimony of Wilkinson .
There are no good reasons to believe that she was known as any name other than Eddowes or Conway before that weekend

[Harry D]

Maybe the people that may have been looking for her used someone close to her to get her, maybe she had people looking for her AND a pissed off triangle partner, ...a few possibilities there. Kate, in my opinion, was killed to shut her up, not because she wouldn't talk, so any connection she may have had to Mary might be common acquaintances?

What connection to MJK? This all sounds like piss in the wind, to me. A good idea for a film maybe but it has no basis in reality. You're just taking a coincidence in the case and letting your imagination run with it.

I know we've been here before but it bears repeating if the goal was to "silence" Eddowes, the killer should've stopped after the throat cut. Instead, he hung around Mitre Square, increasing the risk of capture exponentially to make superfluous mutilations and organ harvesting. Nope. Sorry, Michael. It's piffle, good sir. PIFFLE.

[Sam Flynn]

I don't doubt that Catherine and Mary knew each other

I don't see why that should be the case. Kelly was a comparatively recent arrival in Spitalfields (1887), and there was an age gap of more than 20 years between her and Eddowes. They lived at different places at different times, and were in more-or-less steady relationships, so I find it unlikely that they'd have have had the opportunity to make each other's acquaintance.

The same rationale applies in varying degrees to the other victims, by the way, whether we consider them in pairs or - certainly - as a group of five.

[Losmandris]

Can Sutcliffe's victims all be placed living (or staying) on the same side of one street within 10 doors ?

Any other 'serial killer' who's last two victims both used the same pseudonym on the night they died?

Any other serial killer cut out organs at the roadside in darkness?

There are reasons aplenty why JTR is very different to the typical late 20th century serial killers that people seek to pigeon hole him into

Equally the case is so unique in the fact that there are so many gaps in, just asking to be filled with conspiracy and tales. Amazing that none of this kind of this speculation actually happened at the time or just after the events (fair enough some fingers were pointed at valid suspects, but that was about it) . That its is only now a 130 years later are people coming out with this stuff, when the mists of time, light fingered coppers and the Luftwaffe have done away with any relevant evidence that could have possibly been useful, that it all comes out. I am sure that if someone was spouted off this kind of stuff in the 1890s they would have been rapidly sent to the local asylum.

Tristan

[etenguy]

This is an extract from a post made by Wolf Vanderlinden (post #34 in the 2009 thread - Kate's choice of "Mary Ann Kelly"

I found this information interesting.

Evidence that Catherine Eddowes called herself Kelly can be found all over the news reports of the day:

The body that was found in Mitre-square has been positively identified as that of a woman named Kelly…
The Star, 3 October, 1888.

All doubt as to the identification of the victim of the Mitre-square murder has now been removed. Her real name is Catherine Edowes (sic), but she was best known as Catharine Kelly.
The Daily Telegraph, 4 October, 1888.

On Thursday the inquest on Catherine Eddowes, alias Kelly…
The City Press, 6 October, 1888.

The adjourned inquest on the body of Catherine Eddowes, alias Kelly…
The St. James Gazette, 12 October, 1888.

It’s obvious that Eddowes was known as Kelly and that she took the name from John Kelly her common law “husband” of some seven years. Nothing more needs to be read into that. As I also pointed out Eddowes must have known Kelly’s ex-wife Mary Anne Kelly – the name she gave at Bishopsgate Police Station.

[Monty]

No he didn't.

Daily News 12 Oct;
"It is left to the discretion of the inspector whether the prisoner is sober enough to be discharged, or to the discretion of the station sergeant of the inspector has gone out visiting."

Yep. Byfield had the final call as Charging Officer.

Monty

[Monty]

He was ' out visiting ' at 1am
Just wondering who he may be likely to visit at this hour

Beat Sergeants, as would be his duties.

Monty

[FISHY1118]

I thought that was a later addition to the original story that hasn't been disproved. Didn't Pash say Mary was nannying an unnamed illegitimate child of Sickert's? Pash and Sickert supposedly met in or around 1885. Doesn't the timeline fit with Mary?

Indeed it hasn't been disproved , Florence Pash cannot be dismissed lightly.

[JeffHamm]

Ah, I remember now, Mary Ann Connolly, otherwise known as Pearly Poll! So Catherine's alias of "Mary Ann Kelly", also corresponds in two names to someone who wasn't a victim of anyone, although was out with Martha Tabram on the night she was killed. And of course we have Mary Ann Nichols, the first of the C5. The name "Mary" seems quite common, and the combination "Mary Ann" seems quite common too, and not just common with victims, but with non-victims as well. Which is what you would expect to find if Catherine's choice of alias was just to pick a common random name, making it a coincidence. A bit of a spooky one, but a coincidence nonetheless.

- Jeff

[Trapperologist]

Regardless of the source, the Pash connection hinges on the (highly dubious, if not false) identification of Mary Jane Kelly as the nanny of Annie Crook's daughter.

I thought that was a later addition to the original story that hasn't been disproved. Didn't Pash say Mary was nannying an unnamed illegitimate child of Sickert's? Pash and Sickert supposedly met in or around 1885. Doesn't the timeline fit with Mary?

[Sam Flynn]

Florence's insider info came from the daughter of her friend and fellow painter, Violet Overton-Fuller.

Regardless of the source, the Pash connection hinges on the (highly dubious, if not false) identification of Mary Jane Kelly as the nanny of Annie Crook's daughter.

[Joshua Rogan]

Like i said ,Hutt contradicted himself if that was the case

No he didn't.

Daily News 12 Oct;
"It is left to the discretion of the inspector whether the prisoner is sober enough to be discharged, or to the discretion of the station sergeant of the inspector has gone out visiting."

[Sam Flynn]

As I learnt much to my chargin, the fire engine was a later embellishment

Indeed. One of many embellishments, I suspect.