Serial Killers, A pattern???

[lynn cates]

recent connections

Hello Joel.

"{I]t goes without saying tha[t] these murders are all connected of course."

Indeed. As all things are. (See Leibniz', "Discourse on Metaphysics"--around chapter 5.) But the question is, "How shall we connect them?"

The best.
LC

[joelhall]

1)what evidence is there to suggest JtR had NPD?

none per se. obviously the work could be of one with npd and it could indeed fit with the theory, although there is no evidence to show he did.

2)What ritual aspects of the crimes or constent variables point to OCD?

none. the aspect of ritual is not in the sense usually understood by people, i.e. a series of set motions or behaviours with a symbolic meaning - it refers to a compulsive repetitive behaviour in response to an obsessive thought or feeling. a common one is repetitive hand washing in ocd sufferers who are obsessed with hygiene or germs, sometimes so much the skin cracks yet it does not deter them.

3)Why was there such a gap between the murders of Sep 30th and Nov 9th? How could this be caused by NPD?

this is anyones guess and all manner of reasons have been put forward.

assuming a diagnosis of npd, it could possibly be because he had another outlet momentarily which allowed him to feel more important than the killings did, although this is mere conjecture.

assuming ocd, possibly because he had for a time a lower incidence of obsessive or anxiety provoking thoughts.

of course this too is conjecture.

4)How can I explain how JtR started killing and why?could his view of killing have changed over the coarse of the killling spree?

this is one of those questions where the complexities rear there ugly head. there is no quick or simple answer here, as the workings of mental disorders can become highly complex even related to very minor/unimportant behaviours.

5)can his fantasy(Mutilation) in the manner he performed it, point to NPD?If so how?

it could be as a result of it, although it does no point towards it, as mentioned before. certainly a narcissistic killer could do this, although the act in itself is not proof of npd. a more controlled form of murder could lend itself more towards npd (more thought out, done cleverly, etc).

6)Could jack have developed a behavior patter AFTER the murder of tabram? If so how could we trace them?

doubtful if you are arguing that his cognitive/behavioural traits led him there in the first place. this would already have been developed, most likely during childhood, and the murders would simply be an extension/developement of his behaviours or mental pathology.

7)was he a killer looking for sexual gratification or power over life? Either way what fueled his desire to murder?

again here is no evidence which shows this per se, although it is certainly possible. again desire in the case of mental illness would already have been set, and is a complex issue.

8) The big question: Would a narcissist be capable of murder, would they make a mess of "Ripping" them open in a violent outburst, rather than a ritualistic and planned manner(disorginized trait) but be able to escape from the scene leaving no clue to the kiler being present apart from the murdered victim itself. And without anybody suspecting them whatsoever?(Organized trait)

obviously a narcissist would be capable or murder, although this is not the same as npd leading someone to kill. pretty much anyone is capable under the right circumstances of killing someone or something else do not forget.

rearding the disorganisation/organisation theory - this again is tricky ground. narcissistic or not, you would probably do well to research other mental illnesses before going along this path, as for the basis of serial killing on its own it does not hold up to scrutiny too well. npd as the cause of serial murder seems a little far-fetched given these crimes.

disorganisation is, on probabilities only, more likely than the organised killer. note this is simply on probabilities, e.g. we suppose he was a local man based on locations of the murders and witness testimony, the odds here may be 70:30; 10% of school children were estimated to be below average intelligence (source: the complete jack the ripper), so there is a higher than normal incidence of lower intelligence compared with the total population; there was very poor hygiene in the area and food was as sparse as income could make it, etc. all these swing in favour of a disorganised killer. of course this is simply on probabilities - only one way of estimating things.

however, from the killings themselves it is hard to come up with a very accurate picture of who this person may have been, no matter how many psychologists or other 'experts' think they know better (it seems often that selective evidence plays a major role here). simply put there is a reason noone has found him yet... and its taken over 120 years so far.

let us know how your own theory turns out on this one, although i would personally try a different route.

joel

[lynn cates]

parallels

Hello DVV.

"Yes too many murders in 1888."

Well, even 1 in ANY year is too many.

"In the same area."

Indeed. How many murders are perpetrated in Detroit (in the colonies) every year?

"All unsolved."

Lots of those--the world over.

"Similar victims."

Right. All human; all female; many had, at one point or another, engaged in prostitution. But the clincher? It seems the stomach contents had 1 common element--potatoes. (Jack was from Idaho.)

"Excessive use of the knife."

I think a single cut is excessive. And Liz had a single cut.

The best.
LC

[DVV]

it goes without saying tha these murders are all connected of course.

Indeed.

Amitiés,
David

[joelhall]

Hello Corey. Presumably, we'd be looking for:

1. The killer of Polly Nichols

2. The killer of Annie Chapman

3. The killer of Liz Stride

4. The killer of Kate Eddowes

5. The killer of Mary Kelly

and perhaps 3 or more others. We may find some multiples in here; but, again, we may not.

The best
LC

this has always been my conviction too. it goes without saying tha these murders are all connected of course.

[DVV]

Many murders were committed in Whitechapel, Spitalfields and St.George's-in-the-East in autumn 1888; one can also come up with no fewer than 100 different scenarios tying 2 or more of them together.

LC

Yes too many murders in 1888.
In the same area.
All unsolved.
Similar victims.
Excessive use of the knife.
Etc.

If Jack never existed, and in my opinion that means : the Chapman's murderer killed only once, then it is even no more about copy-cats... That would be the Possédées de Loudun...

Amitiés,
David

[lynn cates]

going begging

Hello Phil. Good to hear! I hope you are full of right good cheer as I am--amongst certain other things I'm full of.

I'm glad you liked the Kant quote. At least he had testosterone and could beg the question elegantly. Of course, many ripperologists have received that gift as well.

The best lad.
LC

[Phil Carter]

Hello DVV. Well, I didn't want the Tabramists, MacKenzians and Coleites to feel neglected. Then there are the torso chaps.

Many murders were committed in Whitechapel, Spitalfields and St.George's-in-the-East in autumn 1888; one can also come up with no fewer than 100 different scenarios tying 2 or more of them together.

Sadly, most of our questions about what happened at that time ring strangely of a question posed by Kant in his "Grundlagen."

"Why have all systems of ethics, before mine, been a failure?"

Note the petitio principii involved here.

The best.
LC

Hello Lynn, David, Corey,all,

Seasons greetings!

Lynn, That Emmanual Kant quote is most appropriate indeed!

David, One day eh.....well...as we have had the scenario that some of the policemen dressed as women, someone will come up with the idea that Anderson was secretly, a transvestite, and ordered the men to dress up for his own personal amusement...

Corey, What would we all be doing if JTR didnt exist?... Oh, 'tis the season of goodwill, and no doubt someone would be investigating the TRUE scores of the football matches played on Dec 24th/25th at the front line in WW1 between the two opposing forces from Germany and England.... And whether the ball actually crossed the line or not... (re 1966 World Cup Final... revisited)

Personally, I think the answer to that one.. (1966 World Cup Final) is actually shown on Secret Film Footage, held in perpituity so as to not let the info go out over the Referee and the linesmans families.

best wishes all

Phil

[lynn cates]

respondeo quod

Hello DVV. Well, I didn't want the Tabramists, MacKenzians and Coleites to feel neglected. Then there are the torso chaps.

Many murders were committed in Whitechapel, Spitalfields and St.George's-in-the-East in autumn 1888; one can also come up with no fewer than 100 different scenarios tying 2 or more of them together.

Sadly, most of our questions about what happened at that time ring strangely of a question posed by Kant in his "Grundlagen."

"Why have all systems of ethics, before mine, been a failure?"

Note the petitio principii involved here.

The best.
LC

[DVV]

Hi Lynn,

more killers than victims?
You're far beyond Turnbull and...Mike.

I'm afraid one day, somebody will tell us there have been no murders...

Amitiés,
David

[lynn cates]

the quest

Hello Corey. Presumably, we'd be looking for:

1. The killer of Polly Nichols

2. The killer of Annie Chapman

3. The killer of Liz Stride

4. The killer of Kate Eddowes

5. The killer of Mary Kelly

and perhaps 3 or more others. We may find some multiples in here; but, again, we may not.

The best
LC

[corey123]

No jack the Ripper? what would we all be doing if there had not been a Jack the Ripper??

yours truly

[lynn cates]

belief

Hello Corey. I no longer believe in Jack the Ripper. However, if I am mistaken, then I suppose the old police suspects (like Druitt and Kosminski) are perhaps the least bad.

Cheers.
LC

[corey123]

But that doesnt meen D'Onston couldnt fit my critera. I dont know much about him than what I have noted about him, so I have to look further at him to see if he fits.

yours truly.

p.s I have always woundered who is jack the ripper in your eyes?

[lynn cates]

models

Hello Corey. Many years ago, when I first got interested in Jack, Cream was a BIG suspect. Naturally, I looked him up first a few months ago when I got interested in the ripper again. My how things had changed. He's been pretty well discounted on account of his alibi as has Ostrog and Deeming.

But you are right that some personalities serve as better models than others.

The best.
LC