Geoprofile of Jack the Ripper reveals Tabram and Nichols connection.

[MrBarnett]

Let's discuss the 'bigger picture', then. Point by point.

Victimology.

I see considerable differences between, say MJK, and Polly Nichols. Age, background, support network etc.

If all you are saying is that these women had in common is that they were out and about on the streets of the east end in the early hours, then all they have in common is that they were available.

[Batman]

It strikes me that Gary, far from being a reductionist, is the one who's taking the "bigger picture" approach, bringing to bear on his appraisal of each case his knowledge of the prevailing social conditions, the geography, the facts of the murders, the victims and the people with whom they mixed.

Do you have criteria yet to segregate lust murders from punters/gangs who lose it and attack vaginas on the 'spur-of-the-moment' (X 2 since coincidentally this happened to Smith and Tabram)?

Seems to me we can apply what you are claiming to all the JtR victims.

That's because you can't segregate lust murders from your alternative explanations.

If he was into the bigger picture he wouldn't be using the tactic that he is which is basically a reformulated defense tactic applied here. Doubt the evidence, piece by piece without considering how all those pieces are connected, which is evident from his proposal that if someone was ripped in the next road next to a sexual assault that it's JtR.

You did exactly the same thing with your list of 'oh if someone is murdered' JtR did it. Same attempt to ignore the bigger picture.

Which is why when I introduce questions like where is the evidence that gangs sexually assaulted anyone anywhere in Whitechapel by attacking their vaginas?

That's a bigger picture right there.

All you can come up with is that this area needs special treatment.

The media contemporary and Dew put to rest this idea that it was common. It wasn't.

Where do coincidences get you? To where? Coincidence dreamland is where.

[John G]

just a few points:

through out the series I see very little, if any, deliberate reluctance or lies of the witnesses, police, even the victims, when having to admit they were prostitutes or had previously prostituted themselves. considering the times, I actually was surprised by this.


Specifically-There is no evidence that Smith lied-at all-pure and total speculation. and put in the context of saying she did to fit a theory makes it all the more dubious.


Not only that but the nature of her injuries is consistant with the story she told but more tellingly is consistant with the type of assault that perpetrators who work in groups commit-savage beating, robbery, torture etc.


consistant even in the world of serial killers- the torture/ rape killers are often found in pairs: the hillside stranglers, Lane and Ng(sp?), the married Canadian couple.


as a matter of fact we NEVER find post mortem focused serial killers who work in groups/pairs-its a lonely and singular thing, even in the beginning of there escalation.


Im not saying the ripper couldnt have been among the gang that attacked Emma Smith, just highly doubtful.

I'm not totally convinced that Smith was attacked by a gang, and Dew must have rejected this part of her evidence by implication.

An example of post mortem serial killers who worked in pairs: Rose and Fred West.

[Batman]

Let's discuss the 'bigger picture', then. Point by point.

Victimology.

I see considerable differences between, say MJK, and Polly Nichols. Age, background, support network etc.

If all you are saying is that these women had in common is that they were out and about on the streets of the east end in the early hours, then all they have in common is that they were available.

No, we are saying more that obviously. That's a typical reduced claim by yourself. Why not just ASK us instead of telling us what we think?

Victimology of JtR is a huge topic with a good chunk of professional peer-reviewed literature devoting entire pages to the subject.

High-risk victims involved in unorganized prostitution. Those who were easy to be assaulted by their own clients. They were alcoholics and not particularly attractive. They took him to locations rather than him taking them to locations. Active at night and the early morning hours, either because they were thrown out or on the job. Age was older which is different from today. Also, his victims all had strong connections to the hot zone and likely each other. Many of victims shared similar names. Things like this.

[MrBarnett]

No, we are saying more that obviously. That's a typical reduced claim by yourself. Why not just ASK us instead of telling us what we think?

Victimology of JtR is a huge topic with a good chunk of professional peer-reviewed literature devoting entire pages to the subject.

High-risk victims involved in unorganized prostitution. Those who were easy to be assaulted by their own clients. They were alcoholics and not particularly attractive. They took him to locations rather than him taking them to locations. Active at night and the early morning hours, either because they were thrown out or on the job. Age was older which is different from today. Also, his victims all had strong connections to the hot zone and likely each other. Many of victims shared similar names. Things like this.

What were Polly Nichol's 'strong' connections to the hot zone?

[Batman]

I'm not totally convinced that Smith was attacked by a gang, and Dew must have rejected this part of her evidence by implication.

An example of post mortem serial killers who worked in pairs: Rose and Fred West.

I am pretty sure there are cases of serial killers who split up and murdered independently also. I think Otis Toole and Henry Lee Lucas might meet those criteria.

Dew is supported by the contemporary news reports at the time. This type of sexual assault wasn't happening which is why the press gave the attention it did and he thought she was completely the wrong type of target for these gangs. The press linked up a series of crimes involving Smith, Tabram and Nichols at the time of Nichols murder. Even they got this pattern was strange. Leather apron was the rage and a Jewish suspect and that ended when Chapman was murdered and Pizer released. It seems the press no longer discussed Smith and Tabram in with Nichols and Chapman much.

[Batman]

What were Polly Nichol's 'strong' connections to the hot zone?

Original first post on this page has it.

[John G]

The simple fact is that there are numerous things about Smith's account of the attack that don't add up.

Firstly, she was apparently violently assaulted in a busy thoroughfare by more than one person and yet nobody witnesses the attack.

Secondly, even though she was bleeding profusely not one drop of blood was found in the area where she claimed the assault took place.

Thirdly, Inspector Reid, who was in charge of the investigation, was clearly perplexed by the fact that, "she would have passed a number of PCs en route but none was informed of the incident or asked to render assistance." And why did none of these constables notice a woman who was bleeding heavily-not just from between the legs, her face was cut as well, and her ear almost cut off-and finding it difficult to walk?

Fourthly, she claimed that she was attacked at 1:30 am, but didn't get back to her lodgings, just 300 yards away, until between 4 and 5am. Assuming she was lying unconscious for over 3 hours, why wasn't she not noticed by a single individual?

Fifthly, why was she unable to say exactly how many men had attacked her?

Sixthly, why did she initially inform Mary Russell, upon returning home, that she'd just "fallen down"? No mention of any gang assault.

Interestingly, Tom Westcott points out in his book that there was a storage area close to where Smith claimed to have been attacked, the entry of which resrmbled Miller's Court, and an ideal place for a prostitute to take a client: See Westcott, 2014.

[John G]

I am pretty sure there are cases of serial killers who split up and murdered independently also. I think Otis Toole and Henry Lee Lucas might meet those criteria.

Dew is supported by the contemporary news reports at the time. This type of sexual assault wasn't happening which is why the press gave the attention it did and he thought she was completely the wrong type of target for these gangs. The press linked up a series of crimes involving Smith, Tabram and Nichols at the time of Nichols murder. Even they got this pattern was strange. Leather apron was the rage and a Jewish suspect and that ended when Chapman was murdered and Pizer released. It seems the press no longer discussed Smith and Tabram in with Nichols and Chapman much.

Yes, as Dew points out she was obviously penniless. Moreover, she was clearly a victim of a highly unusual sexual attack. At the very least, whoever committed the assault must have been seriously disturbed and I think it reasonable to conclude that he would be likely to strike again.

Wasn't aware of OtisToole and Henry Lee Lucas, I'll have to look them up.

[MrBarnett]

Original first post on this page has it.

Well, you give a last address for Polly which is at odds with her death certificate. I take it a 'strong connection' is somewhere the subject may have been immediately prior to her death?

[MrBarnett]

I am pretty sure there are cases of serial killers who split up and murdered independently also. I think Otis Toole and Henry Lee Lucas might meet those criteria.

Dew is supported by the contemporary news reports at the time. This type of sexual assault wasn't happening which is why the press gave the attention it did and he thought she was completely the wrong type of target for these gangs. The press linked up a series of crimes involving Smith, Tabram and Nichols at the time of Nichols murder. Even they got this pattern was strange. Leather apron was the rage and a Jewish suspect and that ended when Chapman was murdered and Pizer released. It seems the press no longer discussed Smith and Tabram in with Nichols and Chapman much.

Did the Smith attack receive considerable press coverage? I though the very opposite was true.

[Batman]

At the very least, whoever committed the assault must have been seriously disturbed and I think it reasonable to conclude that he would be likely to strike again.

Your last post and this are a force to be reckoned with.

If an assault like what happened to Emma Smith and especially Martha Tabram, happened today, the #1 goal would be to stop them before they do it again, because this type of offense and offender generally repeat.

So the question to put to the doubters here would be...

Where did Smith's offender repeat again?

Where did Tabram's offender repeat again?

Do they also need the coincidence that neither was caught reoffending or didn't re-offend?

JtR answers all those questions. The most parsimonious answer also.

[Batman]

Did the Smith attack receive considerable press coverage? I though the very opposite was true.

Smith was linked to Tabram and Nichols by the press. They brought her up in conjunction with those other lusk murders.

[MrBarnett]

Smith was linked to Tabram and Nichols by the press. They brought her up in conjunction with those other lusk murders.

Ah, so Smith's attack in isolation wasn't thought particularly newsworthy. As I thought.

[MrBarnett]

Smith was linked to Tabram and Nichols by the press. They brought her up in conjunction with those other lusk murders.

'Lusk'? Now where are you going?🤔