The meaning of the GSG wording

[mariab]

quick question

By the by, I'm about to go visit the site of the GSG on the day after tomorrow. Was the original site approx. at the corner of Goulston and Wentworth, and could someone direct me to where exactly the GSG would have been in relation to today's buildings?
(Or perhaps I should start a thread about this?)

[Monty]

Foster didn't appear in Mitre Square till mid morning on the Sunday and then, I believe, took a cab to Goulston Street.

It seems he drew the Goulston Street map before viewing the street (I suspect from an old OS map) as he makes amendments on it. He adds the dwellings over his initial drawing.

Monty

[Archaic]

Foster's Version

I've always been curious about City Surveyor Foster's version of the graffito, which I believe was "The Juws are not the men to be blamed for nothing".

I can't recall if Foster recorded the graffito on the spot or if he wrote it down later, but he strikes me as a man with an eye for accuracy.

I wonder if the individuals who wrote out the wording of the graffito did so after the original had been erased? Even if they wrote it down a few minutes later, their working from memory would make the slight variations more understandable.

Best regards,
Archaic

[Hunter]

I agree, Tom, but this wasn't a normal circumstance. It wouldn't have been normal for him to be at the scene. This was his call and he understood the implications of what his decision would entail. In this instance, I could see him writing it down himself so he could show that this evidence was preserved in some respect.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Monty,

In his Nov. 6 report to the HO, Warren implies that it was he who made a copy before it was erased.


'...having taken a copy of which I enclose a duplicate.'

Yes, but although he had this duplicate handy, he repeatedly writes Juewes or something to that effect, in his report, instead of "Juwes'. Wierd. I would think he'd have had a constable or somewhat of lesser rank write it down.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Malcolm X]

That's a very interesting idea, Malcolm.

If it's correct, I would guess that the killer might have written a somewhat different message on the gates at Dutfield's Yard than on the wall at Goulston Street.

At Dutfield's Yard any inscription would have been right over the body of the victim and right there in the yard of the Jewish Socialist club, but the killer seems to have had to flee the scene before being able to indulge all his fantasies.

I wonder what he might have written at the Stride murder scene if given more time? Would it still have been a message that in some way cast blame on Jews, or might he have had a different message in mind earlier in the evening than he did later that night after killing Stride in the yard of the Jewish club, having to flee the scene, and then encountering, killing and mutilating Catherine Eddowes?

Best regards,
Archaic

without a disgusting mutilation the graffito looses its impact, so JTR maybe settled for a quick kill only and saved the graffito for later on

it's so dark back in 1888, that to mutilate out on the street is ok, as long as you have a clear field of view left and right, but right beside a busy club door is plain 100 % bonkers, you'd have to be brain dead to mutilate there.

the killer might be saying, ``i'm not a Jew, but the jews are responsible for me doing this, the types that frequent this club``

THE KILLER USES THE WORD `WILL`... this bothers me because back then they are already being blamed for everything.....this feels very spooky.

[Hunter]

Of course, as far as I'm aware, Long is the only one who noted it down.

I wonder who provided Warren with a copy.

Hi Monty,

In his Nov. 6 report to the HO, Warren implies that it was he who made a copy before it was erased.


'...having taken a copy of which I enclose a duplicate.'

[Archaic]

Did the Killer Intend To Leave Grafitto At Dutfield's Yard?

well i'm guessing and with sound reasoning, that JTR already had the chalk on him before leaving home, the graffito was originally destined for the gates of Dutfields.

That's a very interesting idea, Malcolm.

If it's correct, I would guess that the killer might have written a somewhat different message on the gates at Dutfield's Yard than on the wall at Goulston Street.

At Dutfield's Yard any inscription would have been right over the body of the victim and right there in the yard of the Jewish Socialist club, but the killer seems to have had to flee the scene before being able to indulge all his fantasies.

I wonder what he might have written at the Stride murder scene if given more time? Would it still have been a message that in some way cast blame on Jews, or might he have had a different message in mind earlier in the evening than he did later that night after killing Stride in the yard of the Jewish club, having to flee the scene, and then encountering, killing and mutilating Catherine Eddowes?

Best regards,
Archaic

[Steven Russell]

Poor old Alfred Long was dismissed from the force in 1889 for being drunk on duty. Halse, on the other hand, was thought highly enough of to be made a detective officer.

Best wishes,
Steve.

[Steven Russell]

Here are the versions, according to Casebook, of Halse's and Long's transcriptions of the GSG.

Interestingly, Long does not capitalize the w of "Will" or the b of "Blamed". Where do these capitalizations come from?

Also, if Halse has recorded the message line for line - and his use of inverted commas suggests that he may have done - then "not the men that will be blamed for" would have to be written quite small to fit in the brickwork of the door jamb (18 inches or so?). Give it a try and the largest you will be able to write will have the capitals about 3/4 inches.

Best wishes,
Steve.
PS Halse on the left, Long on the right.

[Wickerman]

I don't think anyone noticed fella.

Of course, as far as I'm aware, Long is the only one who noted it down.

I wonder who provided Warren with a copy.

Monty

Warren erased his copy :-)

Halse did read his version from his own notebook at the Inquest.

The version found in the files, which replicates Long's version, could have been written at anytime.

Jon

[Monty]

I don't think anyone noticed fella.

Of course, as far as I'm aware, Long is the only one who noted it down.

I wonder who provided Warren with a copy.

Monty

[Wickerman]

PC Lambs version Jon?

Monty

Long!...... PC Long, must be my accent
:-)
Sorry Steven, Monty, & all.

Jon

[Monty]

PC Lambs version Jon?

Monty

[Wickerman]

Does no-one else think DC Halse's version reliable?

Best wishes,
Steve.

Speaking for myself, I go with PC Lamb's version because at least we know that an Inspector checked his spelling against the original, leaving us to assume any other differences would also have been noted, or corrected.
Two pairs of eyes produced Lamb's version, against one pair of eyes with Halse's version.
No guarantee which one was correct, but the likelyhood of errors are lessened with Lamb's version.

Regards, Jon S.