The meaning of the GSG wording

[Abby Normal]

That is not a connection, it would be if someone 'knew' it was written at the same time. As it is obvious that no-one did know this then all we have is circumstance. There is no connection.



The police did not 'know' anything. No policeman claimed that the killer wrote it, you know that, I know that, we all know that. Why do we know?, because it is plainly obvious that no-one could know if that was true.



Who shouted that, and to whom was it intended?
All we have is two conflicting contemporary reports, and modern conjecture.

Like I said, there is nothing to indicate a connection to the murders. Think like the police, they need something tangible, not speculation. The killer could easily have written, "Berner St. - Mitre Sq".
That would have been quick, simple and to the point!

Regards, Jon S.

Hi Wicker
I guess it depends on your definition of connection-or perhaps we should have said "possible connection" from the start.

But by your definition, then there is really no "connection" between the C5 victims as the murders are all unsolved and even less connection between A-man and bethnal Green Man. Correct?


But I have to say-from your previous post-of course its possible that it was not written by the killer and was just negative statement in general against the jews.

[Carol]

Which would be rather like taking the mountain to Mohamed.
Carrying this large bloodstained cloth, material evidence, across several streets just to deposit under some small scribble is highly dubious.
He'd have been safer writing his own scribble near to the murder scene, in a larger hand readable from more than 10 feet away :-)

Regards, Jon S.

Hi Wickerman,
He wouldn't be just 'carrying' the cloth, would he. He would have put it in one of his pockets. No-one would be able to see it. He wouldn't be that daft.
Love
Carol

[Ben]

No policeman claimed that the killer wrote it, you know that, I know that, we all know that.

They couldn't know for certain, of course, but several senior police officials, such as Charles Warren and Henry Smith, believed the message to have been both ripper-authored and written with the attention of deflecting suspicion in a Jewish direction.

Regards,
Ben

[Wickerman]

'I'm wondering if the murderer might have seen the graffiti earlier and thought he could use it when he committed his next murder. Then after the double murders, etc. etc.'

Which would be rather like taking the mountain to Mohamed.
Carrying this large bloodstained cloth, material evidence, across several streets just to deposit under some small scribble is highly dubious.
He'd have been safer writing his own scribble near to the murder scene, in a larger hand readable from more than 10 feet away :-)

Regards, Jon S.

[Carol]

Hi Monty,

I think it was c.d. who thought the writer could have written the graffiti from a squatting or kneeling position. Good thought, I think.

I'm wondering if the murderer might have seen the graffiti earlier, thought he could use it, and took some chalk from home with him when he intended to commit his next murder. Then after the double murders he went straight to G. Street and laid the piece of bloody apron there, which he had cut off with the intent of laying underneath the graffiti for extra 'oomph'.

At the moment I'm thinking that the murderer would not have been physically able to have written 'neat' graffiti that same night after killing one woman and killing and horribly mutilating another. Wouldn't he have been in a state of great jubilation over what he had done and believing he had avoided capture once again! (I think I would be rather shaky but then it's only me guessing again!).

Love
Carol

I would like to correct the second paragraph of this post. It should read like this:

'I'm wondering if the murderer might have seen the graffiti earlier and thought he could use it when he committed his next murder. Then after the double murders, etc. etc.'

Sorry, folks!

Love
Carol

[Fleetwood Mac]

Well, our killer dropped the ball from the outset, he rapidly passed judgement on these poor unfortunates, and his anatomical knowledge was only less obvious, "in consequence of haste".

So I guess our killer doesn't live by his own maxims?


Regards, Jon S.

I'd say in all likelihood the writing had nothing whatsoever to do with the murders. I was just adding an alternative to Tom's claim that the writing made no sense outside of the murders. Cheers Jon.

[Wickerman]

Except that the following is an old Jewish maxim: be slow in judgment" (s); not hasty to pass sentence;

Well, our killer dropped the ball from the outset, he rapidly passed judgement on these poor unfortunates, and his anatomical knowledge was only less obvious, "in consequence of haste".

So I guess our killer doesn't live by his own maxims?


Regards, Jon S.

[Fleetwood Mac]

The graffiti makes no sense outside the murders that night.

Except that the following is an old Jewish maxim: be slow in judgment" (s); not hasty to pass sentence; it is best to leave things to the great day of account, than to be free in censuring one another. There is a time "fixed" for the awful judgment, though of that day and hour knows no man: judge nothing.

If this is a piece of religious writing then it could mean one of a few things:

1) The Jews will not be held accountable for the sins of gentiles, when the day of reckoning comes around. Written by a Jew.

2) The Jews will not be held accountable to gentile justice; god alone applies justice. Written by a Jew.

or

3) The Jews will be held accountable for their sins on judgement day. Written by a christian. From the Kings James Bible: Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

[Wickerman]

Hi Wicker
There is nothing here to indicate a connection to the murders

Except that:
It was found above the bloody apron

That is not a connection, it would be if someone 'knew' it was written at the same time. As it is obvious that no-one did know this then all we have is circumstance. There is no connection.

The Police on the scene made the connection

The police did not 'know' anything. No policeman claimed that the killer wrote it, you know that, I know that, we all know that. Why do we know?, because it is plainly obvious that no-one could know if that was true.

The murderer was probably seen/interupted by up to 5 jews that night
and "Lipski!"

Who shouted that, and to whom was it intended?
All we have is two conflicting contemporary reports, and modern conjecture.

Like I said, there is nothing to indicate a connection to the murders. Think like the police, they need something tangible, not speculation. The killer could easily have written, "Berner St. - Mitre Sq".
That would have been quick, simple and to the point!

Regards, Jon S.

[mariab]

If you ever hear Bill Beadle, who is from Dagenham you know, say 'Jews', you would spell it phonetically as 'Juwes'.

Would Bill Beadle's intonation qualify as East London – but not Cockney? I wish I was better informed about all the (endless) different British/Scottish/Irish/ Welsh accents, they're fascinating.

I betcha noone is interested in the fact that “The Juwes are the men that won't be blamed for nothing“ actually constitutes a VERSE? I believe that this is possibly the reason why the person who wrote the graffito chose the repetition “The Juwes are the men“ and the double negative. Maybe that way it sounded better to him, with a nicer, “musical“ ring to his ears. I can't imagine that he wanted to confuse people with the double negative.
I've also been wondering, does this sentence construction perhaps reverberate anything from the time, such as perhaps a quote in politics, or a newspaper quote? Has anyone ever looked into that possibility?

[Carol]

Hi Carol,

If we are going on height only, which isn't the only gauge, then we are talking about a 5'6/8" guy for a comfortable style. This matches witness description on Lewandes chap.

However, that's speculation and one I don't encourage.

Monty

Hi Monty,

I think it was c.d. who thought the writer could have written the graffiti from a squatting or kneeling position. Good thought, I think.

I'm wondering if the murderer might have seen the graffiti earlier, thought he could use it, and took some chalk from home with him when he intended to commit his next murder. Then after the double murders he went straight to G. Street and laid the piece of bloody apron there, which he had cut off with the intent of laying underneath the graffiti for extra 'oomph'.

At the moment I'm thinking that the murderer would not have been physically able to have written 'neat' graffiti that same night after killing one woman and killing and horribly mutilating another. Wouldn't he have been in a state of great jubilation over what he had done and believing he had avoided capture once again! (I think I would be rather shaky but then it's only me guessing again!).

Love
Carol

[Scott Nelson]

It means the Jews will be blamed for something. It's not necessarily anti-semitic.

What's the matter with you people? Do you need lessons in semantics?

[Abby Normal]

The Jews (Juews) are the men that will not be blamed for nothing...'.

A simple straightforward reading suggests, The Jews will not take blame for anything.
There is nothing here to indicate a connection to the murders. Simply an expression of disdain towards Jews in general.

Regards, Jon S.

Hi Wicker
There is nothing here to indicate a connection to the murders

Except that:
It was found above the bloody apron
The Police on the scene made the connection
The murderer was probably seen/interupted by up to 5 jews that night
and "Lipski!"

[Malcolm X]

That's a very good parallel. And wasnt the Parnell saga occuring at that time in London, which hoaxed letters making the news?

The graffiti makes no sense outside the murders that night. A woman killed in the yard of a radical Jews club, and another woman killed by the main synogogue. A message about Jews with a victim's apron under it.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

all 3 murders appear clearly linked for sure, not just anti-semetic, but Eddowes/kelly have been murdered by the same person and not a copycat.

the KELLY murder suspect is not Irish, not a demented doctor, not a loony Royal... NO, it's yet again another JEW, but this time it is a ``diamond dealer from petticoat lane, whose dressed like a Jewish pimp !..... or a Pimp from the 1960's Harlam New York A.K.A Huggy Bear....

dont you see how plainly rediculous and anti-semetic this description is and there he is the next day strolling around Petticoat lane with the police, looking suspiciously at all the Jews... loving all of it, he's in Anti-semetic paradise!...... he can now say what the hell he wants to the media and clobber the Jews like crazy, mind you; without getting too carried away, because this is too suspicious, and by God he knows this.

no, this guy aint Toppy, Toppy isn't smart enough for this, this is a vastly more intelligent GH.

finally the Graffito isn't stupid, it's quite smart, he's keeping you guessing.

he's definitely saying......``the jews are the men that will be blamed for everything``....... and i think he means :- in tomorrows newspapers!
plus, he's refering you back to the Dutfield's disaster from earlier on, which was indeed supposed to be the Eddowes murder.

[Monty]

Hi Ben, Juwes is not a phonetic misspelling of 'jews', and besides, the word 'jews' appeared in print ALL OVER that neighborhood. And yes, the handwriting suggests an education, at least above the level of someone who couldn't spell 'jews' correctly, but would still utilize the written word to express himself.

Semi-literates will write the shortest sentence possible, particularly if trying to wrestle with chalk. Yet our guy didn't say 'the Jews won't be blamed for nothing', or 'Blame the Jews', he specifically wanted to point out a body of men, and that possibly was not Jews.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

I agree with Ben here Tom,

If you ever hear Bill Beadle, who is from Dagenham you know, say 'Jews', you would spell it phonetically as 'Juwes'.

Monty