A Theory -The access to Mary Kelly

[Michael W Richards]

Hi folks,

For Bridewell, the main problem with your backing the notion that "oh-murder" signified the attack commencement is that there is no sound at all following that cry out, and we have 2 witnesses in different locations who are now listening for a follow up cry. Its why I favor an exclamation of slight annoyance at being woken while sleeping off alcohol, and a quick return to bed. A second large problem is that the murder began, according to the medical data, in the room with Mary on the right hand side of the bed. That does not seem in accord with a call "as if from the court", nor "as if at my door" by a court resident that night. Thats why I suggest that the cry was Mary at her open door, it addresses the known facts.

And for Jon, the only statement made by Barnett regarding Marys occupation while they shared digs was that he objected to her "working the streets". We have the evidence of that lifestyle... if one working woman in the court that night is anything to gauge by. She went out to work, she came in to warm herself and perhaps dry off.

I would think anyone that favors a Jack the Ripper killer of a Canonical Group would be distressed to have to explain this other deviation from pattern...the choice of Street Whores....I believe Lynn said it earlier, but private rooms, brothels and checking into a room for the night were available options from the outset of the killings, it would appear by the choice of public locations in the earlier killings that the killer could not control his drives completely, which suggests someone with some kind of obvious mental illness...which is incompatible with the portrait painted by the Hutchinson suspect.

Best regards all

[Michael W Richards]

As to the knife, I believe its possible that more than one was used, and its possible that in one of the MJK photos showing the viscera on the night table that a table knife is present among the innards. The innards may also be laying on an instrument that would be used to heat food over the fire, take food from the table to the fire, or, with caution, dry some clothing over the fire. Its a type of wire grill with a handle I believe, and the table knife has a bone or ivory carved handle.

Ill look for the photo enhancements, I think I still have them...I believe courtesy of Simon Wood a few years back.

aha....Found one. I thought since knives were being discussed it was worth throwing the possibility into the mix..that one murder weapon was left there....if it is on that table, it also may just have been Marys.

[c.d.]

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"You don't believe he played along until the right moment when her attention turned away from him?"

Can you expand here? What sort of behaviour is taking place here?

"Why would you think he remained dressed, not even removing his coat?"

Well, could be the exposed knife would look threatening.

Cheers.
LC

Hello Lynn,

Maybe we can kill two birds with one stone here (yes, pun intended). He asks Mary to build a fire. While her back is turned, he takes the knife and hides it under the bed. Now we have a solution to why the fire was lit and how he concealed the knife.

c.d.

[Wickerman]

I don't have any difficulty envisaging a killer who has created a purpose-built pocket to accommodate a knife, Alternatively a knife in his boot or strapped to his shin. For rapid access I think I would favour concealment in his left sleeve if right-handed - or vice versa.

Yes, these characters can be quite creative, look at the 'killing kit' used by Sutcliffe, including those custom made leggin's.

With Patricia Atkinson, Sutcliffe picked up a hammer as they both left the car.
In her apartment she started to undress, he took his coat off and hung it on the door, she sat on the bed taking her jeans off.
While she was occupied, he went to his coat and pulled out the hammer and struck her with it.

A hammer is somewhat larger than a knife but she never saw it coming.

A don't know, I'm not seeing Lynn's objection.

Regards, Jon S.

[Michael W Richards]

Hello Lynn,

Maybe we can kill two birds with one stone here (yes, pun intended). He asks Mary to build a fire. While her back is turned, he takes the knife and hides it under the bed. Now we have a solution to why the fire was lit and how he concealed the knife.

c.d.

I have a theory about that fire cd, and the spout, and the washtub seen under Marys bed, and the fact Maria spends the entire afternoon with Mary in her room, and the fact that cleaned laundry was found folded in the room, and the fact that Maria gives Mary a few coins before she leaves....I believe its possible that they spent that last afternoon washing Maria's clients clothes...repeated heating of warm water melted the solder and the spout came off. My guess is that Mary need only stoke the ashes with some fire source when she got home just before 12 and she would have some fire again.

Mary has the pump right outside her window, it seems like a great location for a laundress to get some washing done.

Remember the clothes neatly folded, not Marys, but Maria's clients.

Just a thought.

Cheers

[Michael W Richards]

A don't know, I'm not seeing Lynn's objection.

Regards, Jon S.

I believe Jon that Lynns point is more to the issue of the killers attire, obviously not easy to conceal anything if the killer was getting undressed with Mary. If he was fully dressed and she wasnt, then there is controversy. He is either there with her good graces while she is undressed, or he broke into the room and got to her before she was able to react to someone in the room.

Either scenario is obviously not trawling for street whores.

I hope that is an acceptable interpretation of your concerns Lynn.

Best regards

[c.d.]

Hello Michael,

Her killer only needed a second or two to hide the knife under the bed. So he wouldn't necessarily need Mary to start a fire but simply to stoke it. That accomplishes what he needs -- Mary turning her back to him for a moment.

c.d.

[c.d.]

Why on earth would she perform 'quickies', in dark allys, on cold wet nights, when she is a seasoned performer with all the comforts of home nearby.

Hello Jon,

Being outside has certain advantages. Once the act is completed she can simply walk away. If she has the client in her room she could possibly be faced with a drunken, rough client that wants to go a second round (without paying) or possibly sleep there. It could be difficult to get rid of him.

c.d.

[Ben]

Anyone who thinks a person can only be "blind drunk" if they stagger around all over the place evidently needs to do a little more field research - either be a little more observant or start knocking back a few whiskies and see what happens. Cox observed from Mary's speech that she was "very much intoxicated", or in other words "blind drunk". There is nothing remotely problematic about this observation, and there is no credible evidence to contradict this. If anyone wishes to argue that she lied about this detail under oath because she disliked Kelly, I'd like to a little more substance behind this claim than a determination to downplay her evidence in order to put Kelly back on the streets again in the small hours. In all likelihood, a heavily intoxicated Kelly went home for the last time at 11:45pm with Blotchy, from whose pale she consumed yet more alcohol, rendering it unlikely that she would emerge at 2.00am in "spreeish" mode.

I don't know why some people have formed the impression that her alleged time in Knightsbridge was "high society", and that she lived the life of a pampered courtesan there, but it's most assuredly a misktaken one. She may have operated from her room at that stage, but that hardly made her Nicole Kidman's character from Moulin Rouge. Equally unimaginative is the assumption that she'd enforce her "Gay House" habits in an East End hovel regardless of the circumstance. If we want a reliable indication of what someone in Kelly's position would do if she were truly concerned about impending rent-collection, we can do no better than Mary Cox, who, despite having her own room, serviced her clients on the streets. Why? Well, two very obvious reasons have already been expounded. 1) It was her only "sanctuary" away from work and didn't want it sullied. 2) It was more lucrative as it meant more clients could be "got through" quicker.

And no...

STILL no...

Sarah Lewis did NOT see anyone in Miller's Court, nor did she see anyone enter the passage.

Regards,
Ben

[Ben]

Addendum to the above:

c.d. has just provided more very sensible reasons preferring a series of outdoor transactions over one that takes place in the prostitute's home. Makes considerable sense.

[Wickerman]

I hope that is an acceptable interpretation of your concerns Lynn.

Best regards

I've been waiting for Lynn saying that Mary had to be asleep

Regards, Jon S.

[lynn cates]

fertile imagination

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"So, this killer choked Mary on the bed . . ."

Possibly.

". . . then turned to pull his knife from his coat?"

But you've still the bloke standing there in his coat.

". . . draped across the chair . . ."

But then it would need to fit into the coat.

". . . or from out of his bag sitting on the floor, and commenced the mutilations, or something along those lines."

Bag? And so "MJK" never once asks, "What's in the bag Ducky?"

"Yet, you tell me this is difficult to envisage?"

I should think, well nigh impossible.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

fire

Hello CD. Thanks. Not bad. The time would be important. IF there were a fire, surely the glow would have been seen? So it could not be during one of the "dark periods" in her room.

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

Hello Lynn,

I don't see the concealment of the knife as some huge, insurmountable problem. All he would have to do would be to have the knife tucked into his pants and concealed by a coat. As he takes off the coat, he does a quick sleight of hand and takes the knife as well and conceals it under the coat which he puts on the bed or chair. "Here, let me pay you" as he reaches for his coat and the knife.

c.d.

[lynn cates]

main idea

Hello Mike. Thanks. That's the main idea.

Cheers.
LC