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A Theory -The access to Mary Kelly

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  • Originally posted by lynn cates View Post
    Hello CD. Thanks. Not bad. The time would be important. IF there were a fire, surely the glow would have been seen? So it could not be during one of the "dark periods" in her room.

    Cheers.
    LC
    I think a lot of that would depend on how observant her neighbors were. Is a glow really something that they would have taken notice of?

    c.d.

    Comment


    • asleep

      Hello Jon. Thanks.

      "I've been waiting for Lynn saying that Mary had to be asleep."

      Had to be? No, but it might be easier. it would also help immensely if we knew her TOD.

      Cheers.
      LC

      Comment


      • bed

        Hello CD. Thanks.

        " As he takes off the coat, he does a quick sleight of hand and takes the knife as well and conceals it under the coat which he puts on the bed or chair. "Here, let me pay you" as he reaches for his coat and the knife."

        OK. So I presume they have done their thing (even without traces--but I waive that), and now she is up, ready to go out again as he pays. But does she not need to be on the bed to be killed as per forensic evidence?

        On the other hand, do you think she would remain in bed, have him pay whilst she lies there, with a, "And be sure to pull the door closed, Ducky"?

        Cheers.
        LC

        Comment


        • dark

          Hello (again) CD. Thanks.

          "Is a glow really something that they would have taken notice of?"

          Yes, IF they were testifying that there was NO light in her room.

          Cheers.
          LC

          Comment


          • Originally posted by lynn cates View Post

            Bag? And so "MJK" never once asks, "What's in the bag Ducky?"
            Stranger:
            "In this bag?, well I'm an arachnophile my dear, I collect spiders, would you like to see some?'

            Mary:
            "oh, noooo, keep it closed while you're in here!"


            ".... it would also help immensely if we knew her TOD."
            Ah, the $64,000 question..
            Last edited by Wickerman; 01-19-2013, 06:48 PM.
            Regards, Jon S.

            Comment


            • Mary

              Hello Jon. Thanks.

              Mary: "Just come from collecting then? Well, be off with you, Come back when you are done and without your friends."

              Cheers.
              LC

              Comment


              • Originally posted by lynn cates View Post
                Hello CD. Thanks.

                " As he takes off the coat, he does a quick sleight of hand and takes the knife as well and conceals it under the coat which he puts on the bed or chair. "Here, let me pay you" as he reaches for his coat and the knife."

                OK. So I presume they have done their thing (even without traces--but I waive that), and now she is up, ready to go out again as he pays. But does she not need to be on the bed to be killed as per forensic evidence?

                On the other hand, do you think she would remain in bed, have him pay whilst she lies there, with a, "And be sure to pull the door closed, Ducky"?

                Cheers.
                LC
                I would think it much more likely that it was money up front. Remember in my scenario it is her killer who makes the suggestion to pay so he can reach for his knife. And yes, I have Mary on the bed at this time.

                c.d.

                Comment


                • natural

                  Hello CD. Thanks. So "MJK" is undressed and just hopped into bed. OK. So now he offers to pay. Would she not have him "leave it on the table"? Or is it more along the lines of, "Right. I'll just jump up and put it in a safe place. Don't go away, I'll be right back."

                  I need a natural sequence.

                  Cheers.
                  LC

                  Comment


                  • Hello Lynn,

                    I'm not getting why this has to be so involved and complex a process as you make it out to be.

                    Mary's room is pretty damn small so I have no problem with her sitting on the bed as they talk. Again, I think that it would have been money up front. Now if her killer had placed his coat (with the knife under it) on the bed or the table (if big enough) he simply makes a pretense of reaching for the money but instead grabs the knife. This seems natural enough to me.

                    c.d.

                    Comment


                    • No Noise

                      For Bridewell, the main problem with your backing the notion that "oh-murder" signified the attack commencement is that there is no sound at all following that cry out,
                      Hi Michael,

                      I don't back that notion. I simply accept it as a possibility.

                      Why should we expect another sound? Nothing at all was heard from Nichols by Mrs Green & Mrs Purkis who lived nearby. Cadosch heard nothing after the woman's voice saying 'No' and he was both wide awake and separated from the scene only by a wooden fence. Nothing was heard from Stride after she called out to Israel Schwartz and nothing was heard from Eddowes by City P.c. Richard Pearce who lived at 3, Mitre Square. No further noise from Kelly is unremarkable surely in the circumstances?
                      "It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins twisting facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (as Sherlock Holmes).

                      Comment


                      • Hiding The Knife

                        But then it (the knife) would need to fit into the coat.
                        Isn't there one place we haven't considered where Blotchy could have hidden a knife?

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                        "It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins twisting facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (as Sherlock Holmes).

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by c.d. View Post
                          I would think it much more likely that it was money up front. .
                          That's pretty much the only way they do it, no credit, no trust, you pays your money then takes your fun.

                          Regards, Jon S.

                          Comment


                          • I thought Blotchy carried a mug?

                            Regards, Jon S.

                            Comment


                            • furtive movement

                              Hello CD. Thanks.

                              To make it as easy as possible--not to say realistic--why not drop the money altogether? Just add a furtive movement.

                              Cheers.
                              LC

                              Comment


                              • Strangers in the Night...

                                Originally posted by Wickerman View Post
                                I thought Blotchy carried a mug?

                                We've been through this one before you all, our boy Blotchy carried what they called a pail. It was common at the time, pretty close to what Bridewell posted...

                                All the scenarios you guys have run through make me believe more than ever it was a stranger in the night. If it wasn't, he probably did a pre-strike throttle as on C1 and C2. One needs both hands for such a scenario so it's unlikely one contained a knife. Strangle first, retrieve knife, slice...

                                If the killer came out the poor woman with knife aloft, I expect we would see much greater evidence of a struggle and the hearing of blood curdling shrieks. As we have it, she may have just regained consciousness briefly in time to get a thumb raised before the knife did its work...

                                A leisurely chit-chat with a client makes the logistics more difficult methinks...



                                Greg

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