A Whip and a Prod

[NotBlamedForNothing]

Quite sure he was referring to the gutter.

So was her head in the gutter?
If yes, how did the blood flow along the gutter, manage to avoid the side of the head laying in it?
How did Jack manage to lean over her, far enough to get good blade access to the left side of the neck, without putting his head through the club wall?

The "cobblestones" would not have wheel ruts.

Or perhaps these were filled in with mud? - the presence of which has not been explained.

He also seemed to be at odds over another person at the Inquest.

Dave, every witness at the inquest was at odds with Louis Diemschutz.

[DJA]

Her head and neck were in the gutter with blood running towards the door that the pony cart's contents were to be unloaded through.

The word you seek is "gravity".

She was already dead from strangulation. He just needed to lift her head and cut her throat.

Already explained the mud. Please try to keep up.

[NotBlamedForNothing]

Her head and neck were in the gutter with blood running towards the door that the pony cart's contents were to be unloaded through.

I believe her head was downstream of the throat wound.

Now I know you Diemschutz believers are in furious agreement as to the cart being parked outside the door, but could you please provide this non-believer with the best quote of Louis Diemschutz, that indicates this to be the case?

While you're at it, could you also provide a single non-Diemschutz quote that actually places the pony and cart in the lane?

She was already dead from strangulation.

In contrast, you seem to be in a minority on this point.

He just needed to lift her head and cut her throat.

Yeh, just a few inches.
Simply pulling the head upwards/to her right, would not be adequate.
He would have needed to lift most of her body weight with his left hand, and keep his balance while cutting with his right hand.
At the same time, he needs to not put his head through the nearby wall.

Already explained the mud. Please try to keep up.

I will search for that explanation in RC. Must have missed it the first time ...

[DJA]

I tend to be in the minority due to having an IQ within the half percentile. Not my fault. Born this way.

A lot of the case is simple if one actually researches it.

Liz's heart tells us she was strangled.

Chapman's advanced TB lowered her body temperature.

Eddowes had no unexplained cuts.

People here are far too busy making things up to take notice.

[NotBlamedForNothing]

My IQ is 75.

How would pulling on a scarf/neckerchief, either to drag someone backwards or lift their head once on the ground, result in the bow becoming very tight, against the neck?

Blackwell: The deceased had round her neck a check silk scarf, the bow of which was turned to the left and pulled very tight.
A Juror: Can you say whether the throat was cut before or after the deceased fell to the ground?
Blackwell: I formed the opinion that the murderer probably caught hold of the silk scarf, which was tight and knotted, and pulled the deceased backwards, cutting her throat in that way. The throat might have been cut as she was falling, or when she was on the ground. The blood would have spurted about if the act had been committed while she was standing up.
Coroner: Was the silk scarf tight enough to prevent her calling out?
Blackwell: I could not say that.
Coroner: A hand might have been put on her nose and mouth?
Blackwell: Yes, and the cut on the throat was probably instantaneous.

So let's see; one hand on mouth, one to hold her still, and another to wield the knife.

Looks like we have a choice; either it was a multi-man operation, or she was killed by Jake the Ripper.

[DJA]

I have come to a conclusion as to the position of both the murderer and the victim, and I opine that the latter was seized by the shoulders and placed on the ground, and that the murderer was on her right side when he inflicted the cut. I am of opinion that the cut was made from the left to the right side of the deceased, and taking into account the position of the incision it is unlikely that such a long knife inflicted the wound in the neck.

The Foreman: Did you notice any marks or bruises about the shoulders? - They were what we call pressure marks. At first they were very obscure, but subsequently they became very evident. They were not what are ordinarily called bruises; neither is there any abrasion. Each shoulder was about equally marked.


I have already given my interpretation of the pressure marks some pages back.

[NotBlamedForNothing]

I will give that scenario some thought.

I'm currently working with the idea that she was killed in the yard - down the back - and then moved ...


While held by another man (probably two), with a hand over her mouth, the scarf was retied very tightly, to keep her quiet enough and restrict breathing (and therefore capacity to struggle).

While still standing and held fairly still, her throat is cut.
The standing position allows getting a good deep cut, through to the right side of the neck, without tapering off too early, as would be the case with an overhead cut, with victim turned on side and held above the ground.

She is then not held up adequately, and falls onto soft, muddy ground, on her left side.

We then need to have her moved to out near the gates, without leaving a trail of blood.
Initially I thought an old blanket could act as a good repository for blood, but that would likely be too prone to leak.
So I have upgraded the blanket to a leather apron.

Once laid down at the gates, cachous is placed in left hand, and possibly grapes are temporarily placed in right hand.

Leather apron is then dispensed with, or sent to 22 Batty Street for cleaning.

This scenario accounts for:

• adequate silence
• tightness of scarf & position of bow
• pattern of bruising
• lack of signs of struggle
• condition of heart
• depth and extent of wound
• muddied left side
• lack of blood trail*
• absence of arterial spray
• proximity to wall and gate
• contents of hands
• victim found in extreme darkness
• Fanny seeing nothing at the gates

* The blood in the yard is raked and/or shoveled over.

Most likely the gates were temporarily closed, and reopened as soon as the body is repositioned.

This all occurs at around 12:45-12:48.

All that stuff about seeing the clock at 1 am, the shying pony, prods with whip, matches, and Jack the Ripper briefly hiding further down the lane, never happened.

The 1 am claim in particular, was made to protect the identity of the killer, but there are too many people on site just a few minutes after 1 am, including constables, for it to be true.

By the way, the bit about Batty St was just for jolly.

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

So what did this mindless brute the club had hired, do, after slashing her throat?
Did he stay at the club with the bloody knife, until the coppers came and did a body search of everyone?
Or did he march off, with a heavy, measured stamp, and leave the club in the lurch?

>> Maybe he went off and scrawled the GSG in frustration at a lack of understanding from his Jewish employer!?



There was also a speaker who did a speech entitled:

Why Jews shouldn't hire antisemitic bouncers who turn up to work with a 6" knife, and use it to slash the throat of the cleaner, just because she won't give him a quick knee-trembler while she's outside alone, on a cachous break

Apparently it went down well.

Brilliant! That's the spirit.

[Michael W Richards]

It still surprises me when something is posited that fits the evidence to a "t" it is still taken so lightly. There is no Jack the Ripper here folks, this was a simple one cut murder that may have been done in 2 seconds, as per Blackwell himself. The shoulder marks, being held against the wall, the tightened twisted scarf cut along the bottom matching the wound on the throat, her physical orientation, the undisturbed position she bleeds out in, and at around the earliest approximate time she may have been cut, again, as per Blackwell. I gave you a scenario that fits all that. Of course the issue for many is then that there still must be all sorts of hidden meanings behind the distinctive lack of injury because she must have been a Ripper victim,...and then they guess at some. I think the only real truth is that its most probable that her killer did not come from the street. Witnesses saw that street, it was almost deserted save the young couple and Goldstein passing by. Eagle says he saw no-one, Lave didn't see anyone, the only statement that has people suddenly appear on the street after 12:35 is Israels...you know the one...the one whose statement didn't have any representation in any form at the Inquest?

Im not suggesting any individual specifically, nor do I accuse the club of any guilt other than a lapse in honesty and morality, Im just trying to use the evidence to find the mechanical method in which she was killed. The single brutal stroke indicates some kind of lapse as well, suggesting that this was an emotionally conducted act. Likely spontaneous and not well thought out. Annies case saw a killer who was systematic, cut in a manner which allowed for him to take out exactly what he took out, "there were no meaningless cuts". Liz's killer left her untouched after a single cut, Annies killer repositioned her to allow for the field surgery, after most assuredly killing her with a double throat cut.

Im more concerned with demonstrating that Stride was not a Ripper victim than laying blame on the men who are not the men who will be blamed for nothing.

[DJA]

Hi NBFN !

Where,in a cobblestoned yard,is the muddy ground that requires raking over?

How do you place the cachous between thumb and forefinger of a dead person in such a manner that they remain there?

All the Best!

[NotBlamedForNothing]

Where,in a cobblestoned yard,is the muddy ground that requires raking over?

Pickup Joss Reagan's Dutfield's Yard video here (link should start at 3:09) ...

At 3:13, you can see a depression in the yard were a lot of dirt has accumulated.
That's my best guess, if we know for a fact that the entire exposed yard is cobblestoned.
I just don't think the area near the gates would look like that, so her muddy left side has to be explained otherwise.
I really can't think of anything else, and I have had some weird thoughts - like Louis carting the body around the block.
Having said all that, if it actually is muddy where she is laid down, fine - everything else still works, but I do doubt it would be muddy enough though.

How do you place the cachous between thumb and forefinger of a dead person in such a manner that they remain there?

Me: Once laid down at the gates, cachous is placed in left hand, and possibly grapes are temporarily placed in right hand.

It's a way of making it look like she was cut were she lay.

[Michael W Richards]

My IQ is 75.

How would pulling on a scarf/neckerchief, either to drag someone backwards or lift their head once on the ground, result in the bow becoming very tight, against the neck?

If her scarf was grabbed from behind, and twisted, it would choke her, and allow the person who is twisting and tightening the scarf to manipulate her by pulling on it. She is walking away, or trying to, facing the street, he grabs the scarf from behind, twists it, and pulls on it, she is off balance and trying to find footing when he just runs the knife under her chin, across the tightened scarf, leaving nicks on the scarf that correspond to the cut to her throat. He then just lets go of the scarf. Done. No need for spray, because he cuts her while her throat is constricted and so are the vessels, and then lets go of the scarf immediately thereafter. No spray. He has applied pressure on that scarf until he drops her. Clenched fist. Legs curl in towards the body, on her side. 2 seconds, cut while falling. Both things were said by Blackwell.

I think she felt threatened and went to leave, that's why her foot is oriented towards the street almost touching the gate, not the passageway. She was facing the entrance and was pulled back from it by the scarf.

[NotBlamedForNothing]

Let me rephrase the question properly ...

Why would pulling on a scarf/neckerchief, either to drag someone backwards or to lift their head once on the ground, result in the bow remaining very tight against the neck, once released?

Blackwell: The deceased had round her neck a check silk scarf, the bow of which was [present tense] turned to the left and pulled very tight.

When Blackwell is examining her, the scarf is still tight.

[DJA]

We have a blood volume of ~ 5 liters/5 quarts.
About 2 quarts of Strides flowed towards the door.That might or might not include a pound/half quart of clot.
That is a lot of blood.
Doubt there was more elsewhere.

[DJA]

Stride's neck was cut below the scarf.