A Whip and a Prod

[Michael W Richards]

But that combination could also results in slaps and roughing up as well. I just don't see Whitechapel as the English version of the Old Wild West where just looking sideways at someone could result in a cut to the throat.

c.d.

You don't see what was probably the most overcrowded, poverty stricken and criminal infested area in the UK as being the kind of place where people used over the top violence regularly? Check Old Bailey cases for the real story of what Whitechapel and area was at that time.

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

Can I just point out, I didn't actually think that slighting a doorman would result in a slashed throat, it was an offhand remark giving an exaggerated idea of how I feel doormen behave.
That said, what makes BS man as the nights security more bs than a hired ex army goon?

[DJA]

Eagle actually chaired the discussion that Saturday night.

William Morris was not advertised or listed to give a speech on "Why Jews Should Be Socialists".
In fact there is no known speech of his under that title.

There were no known problems eight nights previous when Morris actually spoke.

Ironically,there was a serious riot earlier that month on the Day of Atonement.

[c.d.]

You don't see what was probably the most overcrowded, poverty stricken and criminal infested area in the UK as being the kind of place where people used over the top violence regularly? Check Old Bailey cases for the real story of what Whitechapel and area was at that time.

I agree. Whitechapel was a rough place and violence not uncommon. But do we have any statistics that show women being pushed and roughed up without having their throat cut?

c.d.

[Michael W Richards]

Eagle actually chaired the discussion that Saturday night.

Eagle was the speaker that night.

William Morris was not advertised or listed to give a speech on "Why Jews Should Be Socialists".

Of course he wasn't, the only person who has suggested this was you. Eagle gave the "Why Jews should be Socialists" that night and a few time before that night, no-one said Morris was going to use the speech Eagle often did.

In fact there is no known speech of his under that title.

Why would there be, since no-one here ever said there was in the first place,.. not a revelation

There were no known problems the previous Saturday night when Morris actually spoke.

Don't recall anyone speaking about threats for previous meetings, just the one that was originally scheduled the night Stride was killed.

Seems like you are building a case against someone using points that they never used or suggested. Nice job though. The facts are...Eagle spoke that night using the same speech he had used numerous times, Morris was originally scheduled to speak there that night..., and there had been threats prior to that nights meeting if Morris spoke again. That's why he was cancelled.

Now that we have given you the actual quotes that were said perhaps you might take your seat again?

[Michael W Richards]

I agree. Whitechapel was a rough place and violence not uncommon. But do we have any statistics that show women being pushed and roughed up without having their throat cut?

c.d.

Again cd, booze, violent character, feeling insulted by someone he felt was beneath him. As I said, a 2 second judgement lapse.

[c.d.]

Again cd, booze, violent character, feeling insulted by someone he felt was beneath him. As I said, a 2 second judgement lapse.

You seem to prefer random individuals snapping (Stride and Kelly) as opposed to a killer who intentionally seeks out victims. I simply think the latter is more probable.

c.d.

[DJA]

Would you believe blackmailers underestimating their quarry?

[NotBlamedForNothing]

How did D+S man manage to cut her throat so cleanly, in near darkness?

Who knows, but, she was found in near darkness with her throat nearly cut, so it was possible somehow.

No, I don't think it was possible.
The 'cut where she lay' theory leaves too many unanswered or poorly answered questions.

Take a look at the diagram in #291 - the right-side wheel rut is only 35-40cm from the wall.
So the front of Stride's neck was only about 25-30cm from the wall.
If Jack the Bouncer lent over her body and pulled up on the scarf to get good clearance for the knife blade, his top of head would have gone perilously close to butting the wall, if not further.
In Ripper Confidential, Tom Wescott says the head actually lay over the gutter - which formed a sort of V-shape - meaning the Ripper only had to pull up the head via the scarf, to get enough blade clearance.
Unfortunately, having Liz in that location puts Jack's head right through the club wall.
On the other hand, if the neck is over the wheel rut (out further), there is not enough clearance for the blade unless the entire upper body is lifted, and due to the fact that he cannot bend her at the waist (she is on her side), he actually has to lift the bulk of her body weight with one hand, cut cleanly with the other, and not stand too close to her, so as to avoid head-butting the wall.
For all intents and purposes, this would be an impossible task.

This is before we even consider issues like Stride being caked with mud down her left side, even though she lay on damp cobblestone.

[DJA]

There was no wheel rut!

[NotBlamedForNothing]

There was no wheel rut!

So Blackwell was wrong about there being a rut, and the killer had to lift her that much higher to get blade clearance.

Dr Blackwell: The deceased was lying on her left side obliquely across the passage, her face looking towards the right wall. Her legs were drawn up, her feet close against the wall of the right side of the passage. Her head was resting beyond the carriage-wheel rut, the neck lying over the rut.

[DJA]

Quite sure he was referring to the gutter.

The "cobblestones" would not have wheel ruts.

He also seemed to be at odds over another person at the Inquest.

[NotBlamedForNothing]

When I said security I meant someone to control the door and the crowds, door man or bouncer works fine for me.

So what did this mindless brute the club had hired, do, after slashing her throat?
Did he stay at the club with the bloody knife, until the coppers came and did a body search of everyone?
Or did he march off, with a heavy, measured stamp, and leave the club in the lurch?

... Morris was there semi regularly and had a template speech "Why Jews should be Socialists" that he used ...

There was also a speaker who did a speech entitled:

Why Jews shouldn't hire antisemitic bouncers who turn up to work with a 6" knife, and use it to slash the throat of the cleaner, just because she won't give him a quick knee-trembler while she's outside alone, on a cachous break

Apparently it went down well.

[DJA]

[NotBlamedForNothing]

I have trouble with a knife to the throat in response to an insult. Not to say it couldn't happen but it does seem a bit extreme.
c.d.

Nah, I think it's fair enough.
Just like the punishment for an insult and a knee to the groin - organ removal.