Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

A Whip and a Prod

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by DJA View Post

    The Synagogue and IWMEC were poles apart.

    Pretty much Orthodox under Rabbi Nathan Marcus Adler vs Markism which was inspired,in part, by Baruch Spinoza.

    In between the multilayered mess were people like Ben Disraeli's son.

    Ironically less then 60 years later 75% of Dutch Jews perished in the Holocaust.
    From what I have been reading lately, I take it that London Anarchists were not comparative to their continental radical counterparts found in Spain, France, &c. In fact, the quip exists that UK Anarchists suffered from "too much talk" and that there wasn't sufficient "oppression" within London for their group to radicalize themselves. In fact, one Anarchist states [para] that he had no serious complaints about his time in London. About the most that I have gathered is that Anarchy within London was more of a political identity rather than a subversive community. They championed the abolishment of authority, the bourgeoisie, and governmental structure but not largely to the extent of conspiratorial measures; and, one journalist in Freedom (London) writes that the Anarchist's endeavor [para] was through trying to convince others of their stance rather than eradicating their opposition. Were they socially intolerable? Possibly; I read of an exchange about one IWMEC member challenging a constable on why he would subject himself to working for 'the man' and the constable responding that he had 'a family to feed'. (*Following the lead of your statement of Dutch Jews perishing in the Holocaust, DJA, I did note one aspect that may have lent itself to the upcoming world wars, that being, Anarchists rejected the idea of military service as a wholly capitalistic endeavor; leading me to wonder whether this belief was generalized on Jews as a whole). And, I did find an article on Anarchist Morality by Kropotkine who stated "if we met Jack the Ripper the day when he murdered that woman who asked him for three pence for slum-lodging we should have put a bullet through his head", which offers a perspective that the aims of an anti-bourgeoisie party were more than likely not set against unfortunates.
    there,s nothing new, only the unexplored

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Robert St Devil View Post

      I saw an advert in Freedom (London) that the Knights of Liberty were holding their meetings at The Sugar Loaf on Hanbury Street while IWMEC was meeting at 40 Berners Street, E.
      One of two hotels in Hanbury Street associated with the Cooney family.
      Last edited by DJA; 02-25-2020, 12:09 AM.
      My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

      Comment


      • >>BEYOND THE CLUB DOOR <<

        and

        >> In Graphic (London), 30 July 1892, in the article The Anarchist at Play: <<

        It is important to remember the Berner Street club described in those articles was a very different one from the club as it existed in 1888.


        Re: Membership, that was both a revenue raising device and an enticement to join, designed to be able to sell tobacco and and alcohol outside normal hours.
        dustymiller
        aka drstrange

        Comment


        • >> ... the Knights of Liberty were holding their meetings at The Sugar Loaf on Hanbury Street while IWMEC was meeting at 40 Berners Street ...<<

          Yes, indeed.
          dustymiller
          aka drstrange

          Comment


          • Robert you mentioned that only club members or sponsored guests would be allowed into the club and then surmised that Stride was neither. I would suggest that Liz Stride may well have been a sponsored guest, after all she is in the passageway when she is attacked. I personally believe she was there to meet someone, or to assist in cleaning the club after a large meeting. She had been at work locally "among the Jews" in recent weeks and that club was full of local Jews and in need of cleaning. She could have had a family she worked for recommending her to the club. The other possibility is what I lean to though...the flower arrangement and the cachous. The fact she intended to be out all night. Her newfound single status and as Kidney himself hints at, her pattern of being drawn to other men even while with still with someone. She apparently liked men. So, on this Saturday night, with her long skirt on, an evening jacket with a maidenfern pinned to it, her scarf, her desire to have her skirt lint brushed...preening, is she meeting a new beau, or getting ready to make some money cleaning all night. I think one clue is in the piece of fabric she left with a doss house friend. It must have had some value for her, and yet she wasn't sure when she would be back for it. That indicates to me that she really didn't know for sure she would be back the next day.

            If she was there to clean, she would have a reasonable idea what time she would be finished, and she would likely then return to where she was staying for some rest. I don't get the sense she thought for sure she would be coming back there on Sunday.
            Last edited by Michael W Richards; 02-25-2020, 10:28 AM.
            Michael Richards

            Comment


            • Irish Times, 26 Nov '88: Two of the men who described at the time the man believed to have committed the Berners street and other murders, have to-day reported that they have again seen him, but that, though they followed him he disappeared, suddenly down an unfrequented turning.
              This snippet implies multiple men saw the Berner Street murderer, gave a description of him at the time, and believed he had committed other murders.

              No wonder Israel Schwartz didn't want to appear at the inquest.
              Andrew's the man, that is not blamed for nothing

              Comment


              • Just Chinese whisper reporting about Packer.
                My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

                Comment


                • Originally posted by drstrange169 View Post
                  >>BEYOND THE CLUB DOOR <<

                  and

                  >> In Graphic (London), 30 July 1892, in the article The Anarchist at Play: <<

                  It is important to remember the Berner Street club described in those articles was a very different one from the club as it existed in 1888.


                  Re: Membership, that was both a revenue raising device and an enticement to join, designed to be able to sell tobacco and and alcohol outside normal hours.
                  I don't believe that was accurate Dr. The Arbeter Fraint already had the reputation of supporting the more anarchist elements of Socialism through its support of the immigrant tailors in the area, and was supportive of the strike the held the next year. There are quotes from local police at the time of the murders that refer to the club as an Anarchist Club, this was something that had been established before they were widely recognized as such. I saw this in an excerpt by an article by a Dr Sarah J Young who has a PHD in Russian Literature, History and Culture, and it reads....

                  "At the same time, there was socialist and anarchist activity among immigrants from Eastern Europe, for fairly obvious reasons. It reflects the growth of labour and working class movements at the time, and the fact that new arrivals, whatever their profession or status at home, usually found themselves destitute and had to turn to sweatshop work to survive; ‘badly paid and half-starved’ and living in an ‘unsavoury part of London’ that had once been a ‘notorious criminal quarter’ (Rocker, pp. 26-7), the newcomers provided a ready audience for the activists and propagandists who, after all, shared their language."

                  The cross-over from benign Socialist to more active members for change was already taking place.
                  Michael Richards

                  Comment


                  • Nonetheless,more Rocky and Bullwinkle than Boris and Natasha
                    My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

                    Comment


                    • Rudolph Rocker arrived in London in 1895,after first coming in contact with Jewish anarchism in Paris,1893.

                      After losing his union job in 1897,he moved to New York.

                      He was not Jewish and did not speak Yiddish during those years.
                      Last edited by DJA; 02-26-2020, 02:29 PM.
                      My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by DJA View Post
                        Nonetheless,more Rocky and Bullwinkle than Boris and Natasha
                        Flying squirrels aside, its a fact that some of the men, like Wess, that were a part of that club and the location had spent time in Paris in previous years, where we know more active factions planned and plotted subversive activities... like strikes. Self rule factions also met there to plan activities.

                        AND...again...some of these men were arrested within 6 months for hitting coppers with clubs...flying squirrels they weren't.
                        Michael Richards

                        Comment


                        • Wess had not spent prior time in Paris.Not sure he ever visited.
                          Have no idea who you are referring to.
                          Just more of your imaginary world.

                          Broomsticks are not clubs.
                          My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by DJA View Post
                            Wess had not spent prior time in Paris.Not sure he ever visited.
                            Have no idea who you are referring to.
                            Just more of your imaginary world.

                            Broomsticks are not clubs.
                            Woolf Wess was indeed in Paris a few years prior, where he met Schwartz...shown in the research by mariab that I already re-posted here. Hey, I don't mind educating people that don't know some details, just don't like doing that for self designated know-it-alls so much. Motto...ignorance is acceptable in terms of acquired knowledge, not in general discourse as a guideline.
                            Michael Richards

                            Comment


                            • Oh yeah...and broomsticks of course can indeed be called clubs when used accordingly.
                              Michael Richards

                              Comment


                              • In fact you re-posted no research by "mariab".

                                You have a habit of alluding to complete nonsense that does not exist.

                                Your completely dishonest use of Dr Sarah J Young's work is a patent example.
                                Last edited by DJA; 02-26-2020, 06:21 PM.
                                My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X