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Go Back   Casebook Forums > Ripper Discussions > Suspects > Klosowski, Severin (George Chapman)

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  #491  
Old 10-15-2018, 08:30 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Guy View Post
I can`t see what the problem with Chapman being the Ripper.
He arrives in London a surgeon`s assistant. Single, menial jobs
Possibly the Ripper.

A few years later he`s married, has his own premises and turns to poison.
Hi Jon
Its the huge change in MO-and I can certainly see the point. One of the biggest changes in MO Ive ever seen in SKs. However, its not enough to rule him out.

One could actually turn it around and say hes the only ripper suspect that's a known serial killer of women-so for me its sort of a wash.


That being said, what seems to get missed is that he almost killed his wife with a knife.


And of course, he was abusive toward women and i think if theres any link it could be seen as similar deep seated psychologocal desire to utterly control and dominate women. different women/circs different MO-kind of like Abberline alluded to.


hes got alot else going for him-there at the time, basically fits descriptions, known to have a peaked cap, surgical experience, abberline suspected. fits profile of local avg joe.


my main problem is not the poisoning thing, its that he would have had a thick accent and no one who heard the ripper suspects ever mentioned a heavy accent-which they would have.
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  #492  
Old 10-15-2018, 08:32 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Guy View Post
I can`t see what the problem with Chapman being the Ripper.
He arrives in London
Where was he during the Autumn of Terror, though? There's a fair possibility that he lived out in the West India Dock area (because that's where he worked with Abraham Radin) for at least part of 1888, if not most of it, before locating to Cable Street sometime before mid-December that year. And Cable Street was hardly at the epicentre of the Ripper murders.
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a surgeon`s assistant.
A feldscher's assistant; a different kettle of fish (or jar of leeches) to a surgeon.
Quote:
Single... menial jobs
Him and tens of thousands of others, so we can't really use that as a diagnostic criterion.
Quote:
A few years later he`s married, has his own premises and turns to poison.
Well, he turned to poisoning girlfriends after his real wife and kids had left him. Perhaps that's what tipped him over the edge?
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  #493  
Old 10-15-2018, 08:38 AM
Abby Normal Abby Normal is offline
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Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
Where was he during the Autumn of Terror, though? There's a fair possibility that he lived out in the West India Dock area (because that's where he worked with Abraham Radin) for at least part of 1888, if not most of it, before locating to Cable Street sometime before mid-December that year. And Cable Street was hardly at the epicentre of the Ripper murders.
A feldscher's assistant; a different kettle of fish (or jar of leeches) to a surgeon.Him and tens of thousands of others, so we can't really use that as a diagnostic criterion.Well, he turned to poisoning girlfriends after his real wife and kids had left him. Perhaps that's what tipped him over the edge?
all good points Sam, especially the last one.
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"...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

-Frederick G. Abberline
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  #494  
Old 10-15-2018, 08:43 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Originally Posted by Abby Normal View Post
all good points Sam, especially the last one.
Thanks, Abby. Indeed - we mustn't forget potential triggers or motives in all this.
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  #495  
Old 10-15-2018, 09:34 AM
J6123 J6123 is offline
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So a man can butcher 5 women over just a few months in 1888 in such a maniacal fashion, then simply return to a normal life for nearly a decade without anyone suspecting anything or noticing that he was psychotic, and then resume his murderous career in 1897 as a poisoner? It seems unlikely.

I have read the book about him. Very interesting character. But surely not the Ripper.

Last edited by J6123 : 10-15-2018 at 09:39 AM.
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  #496  
Old 10-15-2018, 10:38 AM
Batman Batman is offline
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Originally Posted by Paddy Goose View Post
Hi Batman, let me make sure I understand.

You provided a quote from Helena's book. So you are arguing Klosowski (Chapman) makes a good Ripper suspect after you read her book. After. Did I hear that right?

Paddy
The quote was a different fact involving Chapman dressing like a sailor when in the dock in court.

I am discussing the issue with BTK changing his MO and Signature. Which went from serial strangular to compliance officer socially engineering hell on Earth for some women.
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  #497  
Old 10-15-2018, 11:08 AM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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I am discussing the issue with BTK changing his MO and Signature. Which went from serial strangular to compliance officer socially engineering hell on Earth for some women.
Yes, but he didn't kill them, did he? And given that Rader was such an arse, I wouldn't be surprised if he'd have been obnoxious to other people all his life. It's not like he was "switching MO" or anything.

PS: Didn't he also pick on kids whilst a compliance officer? It wasn't just women he pissed off.
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  #498  
Old 10-15-2018, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
What Rader did in a professional capacity had no bearing on what he did as a clandestine prowler armed with a rope and a set of wire-cutters, homing in on women who had been the subjects of his masturbatory fantasies for some time.
Loads of SKs have used their job in their MO. BTK installed security alarms for a decade during the murders. He then was a census taker going around to people's homes. Dalhmer used funds from the ice-cream factory and their connections to get his barrels of acid, etc. H.H.Holmes used his hotel as a murder home and his pharmacy to procure poisons for it. BTK was using his job as a compliance officer to harass women. Just because they have a job doesn't mean they aren't using it as part of their MO.

Quote:
I wouldn't expect him to have strangled a colleague, nor a "customer" of his as a dog warden, unless they too happened to be someone he was stalking.
He never murdered them or any of his targets. For 14 years he didn't murder anyone, despite murdering more people than JtR over a longer period of time.

Dennis Rader has stopped murdering/paused and is getting his kicks turning to something else, which doesn't even involve murder.

Quote:
In which case he may well have bound, tortured and killed them too. And, when he killed, he went about it in the same general manner, and did similar awful things to his victims before and after death.
He wasn't doing that for 14 years. He wasn't dead. He wasn't in prison. He wasn't incapacitated in some way. No asylum either. He was hurting women another way and he wasn't strangling them to do it. He wasn't even murdering them.

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There is no analogy or comparison to be made with the criteria which distinguish Klosowski from the Ripper.
Your criteria failed to link Dennis Rader to BTK, let's alone work in a comparative model between offenders. I even offered that you go through each point, but you have skipped it.
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  #499  
Old 10-15-2018, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Sam Flynn View Post
Yes, but he didn't kill them, did he? And given that Rader was such an arse, I wouldn't be surprised if he'd have been obnoxious to other people all his life. It's not like he was "switching MO" or anything.

PS: Didn't he also pick on kids whilst a compliance officer? It wasn't just women he pissed off.
Dennis Rader was breaking the law as a compliance officer. He actually had a restraining order filed against him. He wasn't just being 'obnoxious'. He was breaking and entering (as he did as BTK), untying their dogs and driving them off to the vets to get put down. Animal cruelty and extreme anti-social behavior. If he was caught doing this, he would go to jail for it. He would stalk around the women's properties looking in windows.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHPz...outu.be&t=2004

This documentary covers interviews with the women and what happened at this above time mark.
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  #500  
Old 10-15-2018, 12:38 PM
Sam Flynn Sam Flynn is offline
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Originally Posted by Batman View Post
Dennis Rader was breaking the law as a compliance officer. He actually had a restraining order filed against him. He wasn't just being 'obnoxious'. He was breaking and entering (as he did as BTK), untying their dogs and driving them off to the vets to get put down. Animal cruelty and extreme anti-social behavior. If he was caught doing this, he would go to jail for it. He would stalk around the women's properties looking in windows.
Like I said, he was an arse, but he didn't kill those people, did he? And, of those he killed, he didn't slowly poison them to death or gas them. He didn't kill some in the street, or lure them into his truck to kill them at a remote location etc, etc. No - when he killed, his MO was pretty darned constant throughout.

There is no parallel between Rader and your theoretical killer who so altered his methods that he went from the rapid throat-cutting and evisceration of strangers in public to the slow, bloodless poisoning of partners at home.
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