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Can George Chapmam reform himself to being a calculating poisoner seven years later?.

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  • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
    Mainly, your patronising tone.
    This is nothing more than a deflection from the points I made because you know I am correct about this and just want to continue repeating the same erroneous conjectures despite it.

    You can't quote where I have been patronizing and you instead claim it is a 'tone'.

    In short, just the BTK example alone makes this strawman of immutable MO/Signature go up in flames.

    Oh yeah and "saves me typing it out again". I'll borrow that line from you, thanks.

    If Dennis Rader had left no evidence behind that he was BTK and if Dennis Rader was suspected of being BTK, you would be asking did Dennis Rader strangle his victims after he abused them at work and freed the dogs of women targets so that he had an excuse as a compliance officer to take them to the vets to destroy them?

    The answer would no, he didn't strangle them.

    Aha, says, you, therefore he is not like BTK.

    Of course, this is not like BTK.

    However he is BTK.

    So the question/point has FAILED clearly to accurately segregate potential candidates for BTK.

    Your question/point ruled him out.

    Meaning you can't ever use a difference in MO or Signature to rule anyone out.

    If you don't understand this (or anyone else for that matter) then we can go through it step by step. Which part of the above statement do you have trouble with exactly?
    Last edited by Batman; 10-15-2018, 06:04 AM.
    Bona fide canonical and then some.

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    • Originally posted by Batman View Post
      You can't quote where I have been patronizing and you instead claim it is a 'tone'.
      "If you don't understand this (or anyone else for that matter) then we can go through it step by step"

      ...struck me as patronising. Perhaps I'm over-sensitive.
      Oh yeah and "saves me typing it out again". I'll borrow that line from you, thanks.
      You're welcome. I mean that

      I may get back to BTK later; I'm on my mobile now, so can only type short posts.
      Kind regards, Sam Flynn

      "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
        "If you don't understand this (or anyone else for that matter) then we can go through it step by step"

        ...struck me as patronising. Perhaps I'm over-sensitive.You're welcome. I mean that

        I may get back to BTK later; I'm on my mobile now, so can only type short posts.
        What I am doing is clearly engaging you on the specifics of this exact topic because it has been brought up, oh I don't know, maybe 20 times in this thread alone. So I am getting specific after that run of patiently waiting for your acceptance or rebuttal of it. Neither of which is happening after several days.

        I am not forcing you to answer it, however, I will make this point another 20 times more if needed because it easily demonstrates how your criteria for eliminating Chapman, eliminates Dennis Rader as BTK if there was no evidence tying his directly to those crimes. So, it can't be right.
        Bona fide canonical and then some.

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        • Originally posted by Batman View Post
          What I am doing is clearly engaging you on the specifics of this exact topic because it has been brought up, oh I don't know, maybe 20 times in this thread alone. So I am getting specific after that run of patiently waiting for your acceptance or rebuttal of it. Neither of which is happening after several days.

          I am not forcing you to answer it, however, I will make this point another 20 times more if needed because it easily demonstrates how your criteria for eliminating Chapman, eliminates Dennis Rader as BTK if there was no evidence tying his directly to those crimes. So, it can't be right.
          There is absolutely no comparison between the murders committed by Chapman and the murders committed by Dennis Rader.

          www.trevormarriott.co.uk

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          • Originally posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
            There is absolutely no comparison between the murders committed by Chapman and the murders committed by Dennis Rader.

            www.trevormarriott.co.uk
            Nobody is saying there is a comparison between the murders Trevor. Try reading back a few pages.
            Bona fide canonical and then some.

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            • Hi Batman, let me make sure I understand.

              You provided a quote from Helena's book. So you are arguing Klosowski (Chapman) makes a good Ripper suspect after you read her book. After. Did I hear that right?

              Paddy

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              • Originally posted by Paddy Goose View Post
                Hi Batman, let me make sure I understand.

                You provided a quote from Helena's book. So you are arguing Klosowski (Chapman) makes a good Ripper suspect after you read her book. After. Did I hear that right?
                The same thought had occurred to me, Paddy.
                Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                Comment


                • Going back to the original question, my answer is No.
                  JTR did not form relationships with women in the way Chapman did- Jack killed women as soon as they took him to a dark corner, Chapman wooed them, checked out their monetary situation and then decided to get out the poison bottle. Certainly two different men who killed, with two wholly different killing personalities.

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                  • Originally posted by Batman View Post
                    If Dennis Rader had left no evidence behind that he was BTK and if Dennis Rader was suspected of being BTK, you would be asking did Dennis Rader strangle his victims after he abused them at work and freed the dogs of women targets so that he had an excuse as a compliance officer to take them to the vets to destroy them?

                    The answer would no, he didn't strangle them.
                    What Rader did in a professional capacity had no bearing on what he did as a clandestine prowler armed with a rope and a set of wire-cutters, homing in on women who had been the subjects of his masturbatory fantasies for some time.

                    I wouldn't expect him to have strangled a colleague, nor a "customer" of his as a dog warden, unless they too happened to be someone he was stalking. In which case he may well have bound, tortured and killed them too. And, when he killed, he went about it in the same general manner, and did similar awful things to his victims before and after death.

                    There is no analogy or comparison to be made with the criteria which distinguish Klosowski from the Ripper.
                    Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                    "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                    Comment


                    • I can`t see what the problem with Chapman being the Ripper.
                      He arrives in London a surgeon`s assistant. Single, menial jobs
                      Possibly the Ripper.

                      A few years later he`s married, has his own premises and turns to poison.

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                      • Originally posted by Jon Guy View Post
                        I can`t see what the problem with Chapman being the Ripper.
                        He arrives in London a surgeon`s assistant. Single, menial jobs
                        Possibly the Ripper.

                        A few years later he`s married, has his own premises and turns to poison.
                        Hi Jon
                        Its the huge change in MO-and I can certainly see the point. One of the biggest changes in MO Ive ever seen in SKs. However, its not enough to rule him out.

                        One could actually turn it around and say hes the only ripper suspect that's a known serial killer of women-so for me its sort of a wash.


                        That being said, what seems to get missed is that he almost killed his wife with a knife.


                        And of course, he was abusive toward women and i think if theres any link it could be seen as similar deep seated psychologocal desire to utterly control and dominate women. different women/circs different MO-kind of like Abberline alluded to.


                        hes got alot else going for him-there at the time, basically fits descriptions, known to have a peaked cap, surgical experience, abberline suspected. fits profile of local avg joe.


                        my main problem is not the poisoning thing, its that he would have had a thick accent and no one who heard the ripper suspects ever mentioned a heavy accent-which they would have.
                        "Is all that we see or seem
                        but a dream within a dream?"

                        -Edgar Allan Poe


                        "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                        quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                        -Frederick G. Abberline

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Jon Guy View Post
                          I can`t see what the problem with Chapman being the Ripper.
                          He arrives in London
                          Where was he during the Autumn of Terror, though? There's a fair possibility that he lived out in the West India Dock area (because that's where he worked with Abraham Radin) for at least part of 1888, if not most of it, before locating to Cable Street sometime before mid-December that year. And Cable Street was hardly at the epicentre of the Ripper murders.
                          a surgeon`s assistant.
                          A feldscher's assistant; a different kettle of fish (or jar of leeches) to a surgeon.
                          Single... menial jobs
                          Him and tens of thousands of others, so we can't really use that as a diagnostic criterion.
                          A few years later he`s married, has his own premises and turns to poison.
                          Well, he turned to poisoning girlfriends after his real wife and kids had left him. Perhaps that's what tipped him over the edge?
                          Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                          "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                            Where was he during the Autumn of Terror, though? There's a fair possibility that he lived out in the West India Dock area (because that's where he worked with Abraham Radin) for at least part of 1888, if not most of it, before locating to Cable Street sometime before mid-December that year. And Cable Street was hardly at the epicentre of the Ripper murders.
                            A feldscher's assistant; a different kettle of fish (or jar of leeches) to a surgeon.Him and tens of thousands of others, so we can't really use that as a diagnostic criterion.Well, he turned to poisoning girlfriends after his real wife and kids had left him. Perhaps that's what tipped him over the edge?
                            all good points Sam, especially the last one.
                            "Is all that we see or seem
                            but a dream within a dream?"

                            -Edgar Allan Poe


                            "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                            quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                            -Frederick G. Abberline

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
                              all good points Sam, especially the last one.
                              Thanks, Abby. Indeed - we mustn't forget potential triggers or motives in all this.
                              Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                              "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                              Comment


                              • So a man can butcher 5 women over just a few months in 1888 in such a maniacal fashion, then simply return to a normal life for nearly a decade without anyone suspecting anything or noticing that he was psychotic, and then resume his murderous career in 1897 as a poisoner? It seems unlikely.

                                I have read the book about him. Very interesting character. But surely not the Ripper.
                                Last edited by J6123; 10-15-2018, 09:39 AM.

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