Not Again

[Beowulf]

Right now the issue IS about terrorists. California has the strictest gun laws in the country.

The people killed in this case were killed by Muslim extremists.

Still I have received no answer about the pipe bombs, which terrorists are using in every country they are 'jihading' in, liberally.

[Wickerman]

This isn't just about terrorists, the US have been shooting each other up for decades. That is what the change in laws is about, this terrorist thing is a passing phase.
You'll never stop a terrorist, Christian or otherwise, from arming himself if he is intent on doing so.
What you can do is make it difficult for Johnny nobody to shoot up his neighbours because he got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning.

[Beowulf]

and how about the pipe bombs? In Paris they say it's near impossible to get guns but they got them.

[Wickerman]

If they said that they are idiots England has pretty strict gun controls but had an attack just the other day, however because the guy in England couldn't go to a local store or gun show and buy an assault weapon he had to use a blade and while some were injured pretty badly no one was killed.

To me that's the big difference, even f the nutters in US had single shot weapons there would have been a lot less killed as people would have had time to escape while they were re-loading.

Spot on.

[GUT]

"Obama White House: Terrorist Will Stop Attacking If We Pass Gun Control Laws"

Hahahahahaha!

Read more at http://dailysurge.com/2015/12/obama-...-control-laws/

If they said that they are idiots England has pretty strict gun controls but had an attack just the other day, however because the guy in England couldn't go to a local store or gun show and buy an assault weapon he had to use a blade and while some were injured pretty badly no one was killed.

To me that's the big difference, even f the nutters in US had single shot weapons there would have been a lot less killed as people would have had time to escape while they were re-loading.

[Beowulf]

"Obama White House: Terrorist Will Stop Attacking If We Pass Gun Control Laws"

Hahahahahaha!

Read more at http://dailysurge.com/2015/12/obama-...-control-laws/

[GUT]

Not really. The vast majority of these shooters are perfectly sane by any measure. They would pass any mental health exam you care to put them to, even hours before the shootings. These people are not out of control, they are not raving, they have no diagnosis, and except for our need to explain such actions and the ability to stretch the criteria beyond recognition, they would never receive a diagnosis. They are just killers. And what separates them from responsible gun owners is an intangible we have yet to put our finger on. The nut jobs you speak of are ordinary folks. They just do the unimaginable.

I'm mentally ill. I would never hurt someone. I never have hurt someone and I've been living with this for 30 years now. My husband is mentally ill. He would never hurt someone. Never has. For 20 years. Being mentally ill doesn't make me a shooter. And it doesn't make a schizophrenic a shooter. And it doesn't make some poor schmuck with a touch of OCD a shooter. Which is not to say I want to own a gun. I don't. And I never will. But don't lump me in with these killers. Keeping a gun out of my hands isn't saving lives. And letting me have one isn't taking them. And I'm not some crowd friendly exception to the rule. My story is absolutely average for someone with a mental illness. Probably worse. Mental illness isn't the problem. It doesn't help, but that's not what is creating killers. And frankly we are far more likely to be the targets of violence, and even more so now that people think that these shooters are crazy.

They are crazy the way skydivers are crazy. Not the way I am.

Something maybe to keep in mind.

I didnt say insane, I said Nut Jobs and by any standard if you swear allegiance to ISIS you are a Nut Job, legally insane or not.

For whatever is creating Killers, letting them buy assault weapons sure as heck ain't helping, no one will ever persuade me that joe average needs that type of gun.

And a senate that rejects a law that makes it harder for people suspected of terrorist links to get guns??? All I can say is that the Senate shouldn't be allowed to have guns either because they must be Nut Jobs.

And they are crazy, they may not be insane they may not be mentally I'll (two different things, but hey are bat 5h17 crazy.

[Beowulf]

Look....to me...and I know that I don't speak for anyone else is...the problem is easy gun accessibility.....legal or illegal....I am ALL FOR THE RIGHT TO OWN A GUN.....but I am also for STRICT rules......or REGULATIONS'...and for people who want to jump on me screaming 2nd amendment....it says right in it " a well REGULATED!!!!! militia"...

We need to stop the gun shows where ANYONE can get a gun....all guns should be registered..every one....and they can not be sold at shows etc....there should be a strict back round check for EVERYONE who wants to buy a gun....and that should include having to pass a mental heath exam....then every gun owner should have to have a mandatory gun safety course they must pass ( before getting the weapon) and should have to re-up the certificate every 5 years.....and each and every time ammunition is purchased it should be noted.....registered if you like.....and if you have to by excessive amounts you better have a damn good reason....and if you need to buy multiple guns...again better have a reason to justify it or you can't get them....if anyone is caught selling a gun illegally....sever punishment by law to both the seller and buyer.....controlling the amount of guns keeps them out of the hands of "bad people".....

I know some will say "that is taking away rights" ...my question is...how? I am not saying you can't have them....at all...and if you are a responsible gun owner and not a criminal....then why would you have a problem with ANY of these rules.....if your reason is "you can't trust the government" I'm sorry....paranoia like that should probably keep you from owning a gun/guns....the government is not perfect....but this is America...it's not a place where a crazed dictator is trying to make slaves of its people and run a military state....there are enough checks and balances to prevent such things....from EVER happening here....

As stated before...the 2nd amendment was written before we had police...a military and a national guard.... So I am sorry...it is out dated....

Again I believe in the right to have a gun....but it shouldn't be harder to get a drivers license or marriage license then it is to get a gun.....

And yes radical Islam.....Christian extremists...mentally ill people and criminals are part of the problem.....but the extreme easy access to guns is what makes it such a problem.....bad things will always happen...that we can't stop...but we could curb it somewhat by sensible rules and regulations....

I love my country....and I want to make it a safer place...and again...none of the suggestions I have made take away the right to own a gun.....

I know many people will disagree with me...and that's another thing I love about a free society....but I am just broken hearted by seeing another mass shooting everytime I see the news...

Steadmund Brand

More gun laws. What about pipe bombs? I thought there was already a law against murder, and all these other things:

[Errata]

Yep a big difference between a right for ordinary folk to wn guns and nut jobs.

Not really. The vast majority of these shooters are perfectly sane by any measure. They would pass any mental health exam you care to put them to, even hours before the shootings. These people are not out of control, they are not raving, they have no diagnosis, and except for our need to explain such actions and the ability to stretch the criteria beyond recognition, they would never receive a diagnosis. They are just killers. And what separates them from responsible gun owners is an intangible we have yet to put our finger on. The nut jobs you speak of are ordinary folks. They just do the unimaginable.

I'm mentally ill. I would never hurt someone. I never have hurt someone and I've been living with this for 30 years now. My husband is mentally ill. He would never hurt someone. Never has. For 20 years. Being mentally ill doesn't make me a shooter. And it doesn't make a schizophrenic a shooter. And it doesn't make some poor schmuck with a touch of OCD a shooter. Which is not to say I want to own a gun. I don't. And I never will. But don't lump me in with these killers. Keeping a gun out of my hands isn't saving lives. And letting me have one isn't taking them. And I'm not some crowd friendly exception to the rule. My story is absolutely average for someone with a mental illness. Probably worse. Mental illness isn't the problem. It doesn't help, but that's not what is creating killers. And frankly we are far more likely to be the targets of violence, and even more so now that people think that these shooters are crazy.

They are crazy the way skydivers are crazy. Not the way I am.

Something maybe to keep in mind.

[GUT]

Look....to me...and I know that I don't speak for anyone else is...the problem is easy gun accessibility.....legal or illegal....I am ALL FOR THE RIGHT TO OWN A GUN.....but I am also for STRICT rules......or REGULATIONS'...and for people who want to jump on me screaming 2nd amendment....it says right in it " a well REGULATED!!!!! militia"...

We need to stop the gun shows where ANYONE can get a gun....all guns should be registered..every one....and they can not be sold at shows etc....there should be a strict back round check for EVERYONE who wants to buy a gun....and that should include having to pass a mental heath exam....then every gun owner should have to have a mandatory gun safety course they must pass ( before getting the weapon) and should have to re-up the certificate every 5 years.....and each and every time ammunition is purchased it should be noted.....registered if you like.....and if you have to by excessive amounts you better have a damn good reason....and if you need to buy multiple guns...again better have a reason to justify it or you can't get them....if anyone is caught selling a gun illegally....sever punishment by law to both the seller and buyer.....controlling the amount of guns keeps them out of the hands of "bad people".....

I know some will say "that is taking away rights" ...my question is...how? I am not saying you can't have them....at all...and if you are a responsible gun owner and not a criminal....then why would you have a problem with ANY of these rules.....if your reason is "you can't trust the government" I'm sorry....paranoia like that should probably keep you from owning a gun/guns....the government is not perfect....but this is America...it's not a place where a crazed dictator is trying to make slaves of its people and run a military state....there are enough checks and balances to prevent such things....from EVER happening here....

As stated before...the 2nd amendment was written before we had police...a military and a national guard.... So I am sorry...it is out dated....

Again I believe in the right to have a gun....but it shouldn't be harder to get a drivers license or marriage license then it is to get a gun.....

And yes radical Islam.....Christian extremists...mentally ill people and criminals are part of the problem.....but the extreme easy access to guns is what makes it such a problem.....bad things will always happen...that we can't stop...but we could curb it somewhat by sensible rules and regulations....

I love my country....and I want to make it a safer place...and again...none of the suggestions I have made take away the right to own a gun.....

I know many people will disagree with me...and that's another thing I love about a free society....but I am just broken hearted by seeing another mass shooting everytime I see the news...

Steadmund Brand

Yep a big difference between a right for ordinary folk to wn guns and nut jobs.

[Steadmund Brand]

Look....to me...and I know that I don't speak for anyone else is...the problem is easy gun accessibility.....legal or illegal....I am ALL FOR THE RIGHT TO OWN A GUN.....but I am also for STRICT rules......or REGULATIONS'...and for people who want to jump on me screaming 2nd amendment....it says right in it " a well REGULATED!!!!! militia"...

We need to stop the gun shows where ANYONE can get a gun....all guns should be registered..every one....and they can not be sold at shows etc....there should be a strict back round check for EVERYONE who wants to buy a gun....and that should include having to pass a mental heath exam....then every gun owner should have to have a mandatory gun safety course they must pass ( before getting the weapon) and should have to re-up the certificate every 5 years.....and each and every time ammunition is purchased it should be noted.....registered if you like.....and if you have to by excessive amounts you better have a damn good reason....and if you need to buy multiple guns...again better have a reason to justify it or you can't get them....if anyone is caught selling a gun illegally....sever punishment by law to both the seller and buyer.....controlling the amount of guns keeps them out of the hands of "bad people".....

I know some will say "that is taking away rights" ...my question is...how? I am not saying you can't have them....at all...and if you are a responsible gun owner and not a criminal....then why would you have a problem with ANY of these rules.....if your reason is "you can't trust the government" I'm sorry....paranoia like that should probably keep you from owning a gun/guns....the government is not perfect....but this is America...it's not a place where a crazed dictator is trying to make slaves of its people and run a military state....there are enough checks and balances to prevent such things....from EVER happening here....

As stated before...the 2nd amendment was written before we had police...a military and a national guard.... So I am sorry...it is out dated....

Again I believe in the right to have a gun....but it shouldn't be harder to get a drivers license or marriage license then it is to get a gun.....

And yes radical Islam.....Christian extremists...mentally ill people and criminals are part of the problem.....but the extreme easy access to guns is what makes it such a problem.....bad things will always happen...that we can't stop...but we could curb it somewhat by sensible rules and regulations....

I love my country....and I want to make it a safer place...and again...none of the suggestions I have made take away the right to own a gun.....

I know many people will disagree with me...and that's another thing I love about a free society....but I am just broken hearted by seeing another mass shooting everytime I see the news...

Steadmund Brand

[Wickerman]

According to reports here a bloke in a nearby shop (over the road I think) had a gun but that didn't save anyone did it.

Right GUT.

There is more to this issue than being the proud owner of a gun. No-one shoots back on a Saturday morning gun range
Military and police are trained to be involved in an exchange of gunfire, the ordinary citizen is not.

[Wickerman]

Jon, I haven't the figures to hand, but I doubt if many people have been killed in the US by law-abiding citizens opening fire on an attacker, missing him and hitting each other. Indeed the mystifying thing is, most Americans own guns but without having the slightest inclination, or even ability, to use them.

Robert, more gun owners with little inclination, even less ability, increasing the likelyhood of a calamity cannot hope to improve the situation.

[Shaggyrand]

Narrative is almost more important than facts these days for many media outlets. Which is almost as bad as the "throw everything at the wall and see what sticks" school of journalism that shows up when anything is developing. The joys of the 24 hour news cycle and desperation for hits. Despite the event now being looked at as a terrorist event, many still won't give up their earlier version of what it was until there is no other choice and when something that actually fits that original narrative happens this will be brought up as whatever again.
If that makes sense to anyone... It does to me at any rate.

[Robert]

Yes, it's being treated as a terrorist incident. The suspect is alleged to have shouted something about Syria, though you'd never know that from looking at the report on the BBC news site.