Election

[Herlock Sholmes]

It is clear to everyone here that you have. Muslims make up 25% of the population, and you have called them ALL fundies, and you have condemned what they ALL believe in - no matter how diverse - a danger and a threat.

I have said no such thing. Dishonesty comes from every post you make.

You keep jumping back and forth between to completely separate talking points: either there are elements within the group that are dangerous - in other words, the danger is not Islam but rather these fringe elements - and that's what you claim to be saying here.... Or, the danger is Islam itself, which creates these elements, in which case ALL Muslims are ticking bombs. And that, I dare say, is more in line with your way of thinking. But it that's your poison, then you absolutely cannot claim that you never condemned 25% of the population.

I can. Because you are not telling the truth again.

Yes, of course they believe that - but THEY don't believe the Quran says what YOU believe it says. That's just the thing. Like I pointed out, even pro LGBTQ+ Christians believe the Bible is inerrant, the absolute word of God... they just interpret it differently from the fundies. When YOU read the Quran, all you read is BLOOD BLOOD BLOOD. That's because you cherry pick the very worst of the worst, and interpret the surahs in the worst possible light. Muslims, on the other hand, cherry pick in a completely different way: they interpret the surahs in the best possible light, and pick the best of the best.

"But if they believe it's ALL true..."

Of course they do. But the Quran, just like the Bible, is full of contradictions. So in order to make it all fit, you have to interpret some verses to mean something different than the text would imply on its own. Either it should be read in such and such context, or it's a metaphor, or... something. There is more than plenty - in the Quran and Bible alike - for bellicose people to find justification for war and hate, but there is also more than plenty for peaceful people to find comfort in the fact that their god wants peace and love. Religion is what you make it.

I’ve explained. Get someone to explain it to you if it’s too complex because I’m not going through it again.

[Tab]

No one is forcing anyone to eat Halal meat, there is no FORCING involved as some claim, if it is difficult to find non-Halal meat, it is probably your problem to deal with, not a muslims problem.



The Baron

I case it wasn't clear, I agree with you.

All the best,
Tab

[Herlock Sholmes]

I’ve taken Tab’s advice and have looked back on my own contributions to this thread.

In the beginning was a ‘discussion’ on the merits or otherwise of immigration including digressions on illegal immigrants/asylum seekers. Pretty much straight away it could be sensed that the ‘racism card’ wasn’t to far over the horizon (which is to be expected these days in any discussion of this type?) The point was made about the benefits that immigrants bring but the downside was also mentioned which naturally caused a level of angst. Then of course it was suggested that immigration wasn't an issue. Exception was then taken when it was shown that all polls told us that before the election immigration rated high on the list of priorities for the UK public (indeed on one poll it was the top issue.) So a significant percentage the Uk population clearly has serious concerns. So I’d sum up by saying that whatever individuals opinions are, whether on here or elsewhere) we were correct to state that a large percentage of the UK population has genuine concerns about current and past immigration. This concern should not be mocked, demonised or dismissed. Efforts should be made to solve problems beginning with open discussion where genuine people aren’t faced with hysterical shouts of ‘racism’ every time that the subject is raised.

In post number 40 I mentioned my local High Street looking like a foreign country but I also stressed that “a level of immigration is a good thing which should be welcomed happily by all…” The concerns that I mentioned were over the levels of immigration; I also made specific mention of the serious worries expressed by our senior citizens but clearly, whilst sympathy is in good supply elsewhere, there is none available for them. I also mentioned the recent tendency toward a slightly masochistic view of our own country; that we are somehow to be portrayed as the ‘evil ones’ (and yes of course we should acknowledge, like all country, the bad things that we’ve done or have been a part of but it does appear that the UK more than other countries is being encouraged to shed any semblance of national pride). I made a point that this ‘hate our own history’ combined with heavy immigration figures might at some point in the future trigger the racists out there into reaction. Now I’m not suggesting for a second that we should pander to racists but to ignore them and how they might react would be naive and careless to say the least.

I also in another post stressed (not for the first time) that we cannot and should not blame immigration for all of societies ills. Perhaps I should have said this every two or three posts because no matter what is said it won’t be accepted. The label is difficult to peel off.

Another post that I added was this one, during the discussion on the tube signs: “The second sign was added as a tribute to the contribution of the Bengali community in the area.” No acknowledgment of course.

So what else. We move on to post number 82 where I committed the horrific crime of expressing sympathy for JK Rowling. I make no apology. I agree with her and feel that she has been treated abysmally by a howling mob. I also stated that I believe that a country first duty is to the welfare of its own citizens. Another point I stand by 100%.

You made the point that the Uk haven’t sent money to India since 2015. I of course accept this as a fact. I was mistaken. (They still used to do it though)

Onto post 178 where we exchanged posts with no anger whilst disagreeing and agreeing on some points. Then I made post 199 which MsD was very kind about and you agreed with her.

In post 286 you decided to lecture me on Islam, talking about the way different interpretations come into play and you accuse me of allowing radicals to inform my opinions. In a later post I mention interpretation and how it’s not relevant because what I am talking about is want ordinary Muslims believe. Muslims who don’t sit around all day debating Quranic interpretations.*1

I next responded to a post where Svensson appeared to believe that Halal by stealth isn’t a problem. I strongly disagree. In post 312 you quote a couple of polls. Strange that we’ve had a few polls mentioned which you weren’t so keen on. Good polls, bad polls…take your pick….oh, you have.

In post 342 Karl jumped in on fundamentalism. Always ready to defend. Post 345 I made another calm and reasonable post about my concerns about problems within Islam. Then with post 354 and 355 more talk of interpretations and how not all Muslims believe blah, blah.

*1. In Post 411 posted many examples of how average Muslim’s viewed their own religion. Not what theologists in Iran were discussing but how normal people treat it. Of course not all are the same but there are clearly, obviously a very significant proportion of Muslims who believe that the Quran cannot be questioned. This is a fact. I’ve spoken to around 70 at a rough estimate on religion over time and I have t met one single Muslim who stated that the Quran was there to be questioned and disputed. Therefore Tab and Karl, we have a significant proportion (I’d suggest the large majority) of average Muslims who believe this. All of these people are easy fodder for anyone senior within that religion. It’s why we see so many terrorist attacks, violent incidents and outrages which you have to spend so much time turning blind eyes to or making excuses for.

Please don’t trouble yourselves to respond as I’ve heard far too much of your attempts to twist the narrative and your frankly stomach-churning attempts to demonise people whilst you make excuse after excuse for others. I will not be labelled by you or have my opinions twisted simply for point scoring reasons and in an attempt to make yourselves look fashionably woke. That you’ve so easily taken offence to things said on here speaks volumes.

[Karl]

I’ve explained. Get someone to explain it to you if it’s too complex because I’m not going through it again.

I debunked your "explanation". Too bad it went over your head.

As for your post after that, my immediate thought is... martyr complex?

[Herlock Sholmes]

I debunked your "explanation". Too bad it went over your head.

As for your post after that, my immediate thought is... martyr complex?

Drivel.

[The Baron]

I case it wasn't clear, I agree with you.

All the best,
Tab

You were!

And those who cry because they cannot find not-Halal meat have to go elswhere looking, or should muslims provide this for them too?!


The Baron

[Herlock Sholmes]

You were!

And those who cry because they cannot find not-Halal meat have to go elswhere looking, or should muslims provide this for them too?!


The Baron

You seem to find it strange that in ENGLAND which isn’t a Muslim country, that it’s ok for someone to walk into part of the largest supermarket chain in the UK and ask for a piece of Lamb be cut for him/her only to be told you either eat Halal or go elsewhere. If you think that’s right then I think that I should remove the word ‘think’ from the question.

But of course, you aren’t presenting a serious debate are you, because you never do, your only aim when posting on this site is to annoy. No matter what the topic your only thought is ‘which side should I take to cause the most irritation.’

So if your life’s goal on here is to be an irritant all that I can say is

[The Baron]

It doesn't matter, in 171 years the UK will be a muslim majority country, you are just living the preparations.

Stick to Pork, it is never halal.



The Baron

[Karl]

Drivel.

Not the best defence, Herlock.

[Karl]

You seem to find it strange that in ENGLAND which isn’t a Muslim country, that it’s ok for someone to walk into part of the largest supermarket chain in the UK and ask for a piece of Lamb be cut for him/her only to be told you either eat Halal or go elsewhere. If you think that’s right then I think that I should remove the word ‘think’ from the question.

The only way you would ever be told something like that is if YOU first said "I hope this isn't halal meat" - which would pretty much make you the dick. The only difference between halal meat and non-halal meat is whether or not a prayer is said before slaughter. That's it. It matters to Muslims, obviously, but it really shouldn't matter to anyone else. You don't get Muslim cooties just because it's halal.

[Herlock Sholmes]

It doesn't matter, in 171 years the UK will be a muslim majority country, you are just living the preparations.

Stick to Pork, it is never halal.



The Baron

I think you’re revealing something of yourself here Baron. You have no point of course.

[Herlock Sholmes]

The only way you would ever be told something like that is if YOU first said "I hope this isn't halal meat" - which would pretty much make you the dick. The only difference between halal meat and non-halal meat is whether or not a prayer is said before slaughter. That's it. It matters to Muslims, obviously, but it really shouldn't matter to anyone else. You don't get Muslim cooties just because it's halal.

The butchers in a UK store should not be Halal. End of story. Don’t bother responding I’m tired of hearing your apologist waffle.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Not the best defence, Herlock.

Penetratingly accurate though.

[Karl]

Penetratingly accurate though.

If that were true, it'd be a good defence. But you're a worse marksman than T.C. Basically, all you've got is "nuh uh" - and you even seem proud of it.

[Karl]

The butchers in a UK store should not be Halal. End of story. Don’t bother responding I’m tired of hearing your apologist waffle.

Why shouldn't they? Do you have ANY argument at all why butchers in a UK store shouldn't be halal? Sure, they shouldn't have to be halal, but what is it to you if they are?