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  • #16
    The entire voting process is archaic and promotes misrepresentation.


    The idea of Democracy is not the same as the practicality of Democracy.


    The fairest way to achieve the most balanced and representational results from the voting of the masses, is to take the voting system, scrap it, and then start again.


    ​​​​​​The voting system should incorporate those who...


    Don't understand politics
    Don't care about politics
    Choose not to accept voting for the "lesser of evils"
    Are undecided

    Of course, the Tories did try that with the shambles that was Brexit - a prime example what happens when you let masses of people who fall into the above 4 categories, vote on something just for the sake of it.

    To me, Brexit was a bit like a bunch of wounded and tired Jedi and Sith, handing out lightsabers to random civilians and telling them it's okay to have a go themselves.

    ​​​​​​For the sake of the people of course.

    But the reason why it was a shambles, was because Brexit voting DIDNT include any of the options in my list above...and THAT'S why it was a failure.

    The idea of allowing masses of people who know nothing about what they're voting for is of course inherently and fundamentally democratic; but it was the application of said idea that was a complete s**t show.

    ​​​​And that's what having the "freedom" to vote is like.

    ​​​​​
    Democracy will never be actual "democracy" until the day comes when it is inclusive of those who choose not to make a bad choice just for the sake of trying to uphold a system that is already fractured.
    But crucially; unlike Brexit, it needs to applied and implemented correctly and coherently and with a structure in place that supports voting for all.


    The reason why so many people choose not to vote, is because there's a stigma for those who don't want to add to the chaos by voting on something they know nothing about.

    There should be a box on the voting form that allows the following...

    Abstaining because of...

    No knowledge of politics
    No care for politics
    Indecision/None of the above
    Not willing to accept any of the candidates above

    ​​​​​​CHOOSING to ABSTAIN from voting is STILL A VOTE

    Of course, they will always be those who use the argument that "people died for you to be able to have the vote!"
    Hmmmm... I can't imagine that any soldier who found themselves pinned down by mortar fire and being flanked by their enemy; watching their brother's in arms ripped to shreds by heavy machine gun fire...ever stopped and thought...

    I can't give up now, the people at home need their vote!


    ​​It's the same kind of moronic mindset that is displayed when someone tells you that "money doesn't buy you happiness!"

    Anyone that says that obviously has enough money to not care or worry about it.


    ​​
    But I digress...


    Now, for the sake of balance...


    ...it could/should be made Mandatory to vote...but ONLY if the above list is included on the ballot paper.

    It's a fair trade; you have to vote, but you can vote to not vote.

    What's worse, having the freedom to choose not to vote, or voting for something just for the sake of it?

    How is that a true representation of the people if they are restricted to voting for the lesser of evils.

    Of course, the reason why SO MANY PEOPLE don't vote, is precisely because there aren't the options available on the ballot paper.

    ​​​​A voting system that incorporates those who fall into the above list would bring about a more accurate picture of what the people truly think and believe about their country.


    That said, it doesn't really ever matter who is in power, because things never really change and the entire concept of believing you're making a difference with your vote is simply a ploy to control the masses.

    We are all just sheep after all.


    But anyway, what was the question?


    Back to the Ripper case for me, this Pub lark doesn't sit right with me


    Haha


    RD
    Last edited by The Rookie Detective; 05-26-2024, 09:53 AM.
    "Great minds, don't think alike"

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by The Rookie Detective View Post

      ​​​​​​CHOOSING to ABSTAIN from voting is STILL A VOTE

      Of course, they will always be those who use the argument that "people died for you to be able to have the vote!"
      Hmmmm... I can't imagine that any soldier who found themselves pinned down by mortar fire and being flanked by their enemy; watching their brother's in arms ripped to shreds by heavy machine gun fire...ever stopped and thought...

      I can't give up now, the people at home need their vote!

      RD
      Hi Rookie D!

      Whilst I get what you're saying here, my gran and her sisters were big supporters of the Suffragette movement.

      That fact alone makes me feel compelled to vote even if I am not particularly enamoured with any of the options on the ballot.

      I used to be quite passionate about politics when I was young.

      Now it feels like a choice between which foot to shoot myself in, but I will still do it.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by String View Post
        4.80 a pint in my local now. It’s too expensive to drink out.
        I still remember the day in 1994 when I walked out of my local in Brixton in protest of 2 a pint

        Actually, the cheese rolling just started. brb...
        Last edited by Svensson; 05-27-2024, 11:09 AM.

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        • #19
          As the real Geddy would sing, 'if you choose not to decide you still have made a choice.'

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Geddy2112 View Post
            As the real Geddy would sing, 'if you choose not to decide you still have made a choice.'
            Freewill.

            Classic
            Regards

            Sir Herlock Sholmes.

            “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

            Comment


            • #21
              On the subject of mandatory voting, which I’m opposed too I asked some of my relatives who they were going to vote for. All didn’t know there was an election and all are not going to vote. 4 female, 40, 35, 22, 21 one male 35 none are registered and my wife is only bothering because I cajole her into it.

              Comment


              • #22
                For me the problem is that politicians think that their job is to get into power and then to try and convince the population of what they should want them to do for them. Mandatory voting will never happen because if we had everyone voting the political parties would be told what the people of this country really want and it’s not what they themselves want because they don’t represent the majority. I’ve always voted Labour but I have to say that the things that the public actually want to happen are traditionally considered positions that usually sit on the right of politics. People want the streets making safer…police on the streets and in cars patrolling to prevent rather than simply reacting….they want far tougher sentencing as a deterrent…..they want a serious and drastic curb/cut on immigration….they want a move away from the ‘hate England and its history’ mentally and cancel culture….they want the NHS sorting out and the government to step in and sort out our GP’s (who now appear to be all powerful). None of this will happen of course. So we can all give up.
                Last edited by Herlock Sholmes; 05-30-2024, 10:35 AM.
                Regards

                Sir Herlock Sholmes.

                “A house of delusions is cheap to build but draughty to live in.”

                Comment


                • #23
                  I'm going to vote for the lesser of two evils. In other words Labour. That seems to me to be the most sensible thing to do. Even though I don't like Starmer.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    The way I see it...


                    The Tories are sly; they lie and cheat in everything they do and only care for themselves and resent the poor.

                    The Socialists (Labour) don't have a clue what they're doing and undersell the poor through misrepresentation.

                    The Liberals have no significant impact or effect on anything and follow an ideology that doesn't fit into the real world.

                    The Greens are not even worth talking about unless you live in Brighton.


                    I can't tolerate any of them.



                    If I voted; I'd much rather vote for myself.


                    haha!


                    RD
                    "Great minds, don't think alike"

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Svensson View Post

                      I still remember the day in 1994 when I walked out of my local in Brixton in protest of 2 a pint

                      Actually, the cheese rolling just started. brb...
                      I was taking courses at PSU when the price of a pack of cigarettes went up to 25 cents (around 1980 or so). I've never been a smoker, so I didn't care, but there was a sizable (and very LOUD) boycott of the student store for the rest of the semester.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
                        For me the problem is that politicians think that their job is to get into power and then to try and convince the population of what they should want them to do for them. Mandatory voting will never happen because if we had everyone voting the political parties would be told what the people of this country really want and it’s not what they themselves want because they don’t represent the majority. I’ve always voted Labour but I have to say that the things that the public actually want to happen are traditionally considered positions that usually sit on the right of politics. People want the streets making safer…police on the streets and in cars patrolling to prevent rather than simply reacting….they want far tougher sentencing as a deterrent…..they want a serious and drastic curb/cut on immigration….they want a move away from the ‘hate England and its history’ mentally and cancel culture….they want the NHS sorting out and the government to step in and sort out our GP’s (who now appear to be all powerful). None of this will happen of course. So we can all give up.
                        I think it is true that too many politicians view "being a politician" as a vocation and are more interested in keeping thier job than doing a good job for thier constituents/country. I believe that mandatory voting should happen for three reasons: 1. It would completely nullify voter-suppression agendas, 2. Would at least make SOME people engage in the political process more than they have been in the past and 3. Would remove that skew of tailoring any policies towars those who are more likely to vote at the expense of those who are less likely to vote.

                        Then there is the issue that politicians and the media have an obligation to present issues that affect the country honestly and talk about thier complexity. We need to recognise that no issue has a magic bullet that any one political party is in possesion of. I see immigration as the perfect example You could say "we will stop immigration" but that overlooks the fact that the present western economic model has for decades factored in immigration of skilled an unskilled labour. Skilled labor was used when governments were unable or unwilling to create career-paths that would produce enough home-grown GPs or nurses, so they were just imported.

                        For example, last month I had some guys at my house laying glass fibre cable from the footpath into my house. No one could locate the original telephone cable tube (they usually thread the through that), so after some back and forth and checking with the neighbours' setups, thye decided to lay a new cable tube. They dug up the cobblestone footpath, drilled through a brickwall. run the new cable behind the skirtingboards and installed the new connector box next to the usual TV/Phone box. They then filled the hole in my footpath, put the cobble-stones back in, filled the gaps with sand and levelled them up. So these guys were multiskilled and had all the tools in thier van to deal with whatever situation thier were going to encounter at a customer site and they finished everything in just under 3 hours. Thing is, these guys were from Poland and as I was talking to them, it turns out that they have a 4 month contract with KPN and they work around 10 hours a day, 6 days a week. Once thye finish this contract, they will be off to Belgium to basically do the same job from the autumn onwards.

                        The point is this: there is not enough skilled labour in this country (Netherlands) to do such a massive infrastructure roll-out in the three years that KPN have set themselves as a target. If they were to rely on Dutch-only labour, it would probably take a decade.Nor would it make sense to upskill thousands to technicians to do this what what is essentially a once-a-generation project. Therefore, the solution to THIS particular problem is the free movement of labour.

                        I give you another example: I was in born in Germany, I went to nursery there. I got all the vaccinations paid for by the ("West" at the time) German government and I benefited from all the infrastructure that was put in place for children like... Schools, sports clubs, medical and dental treatment, etc etc. So ze germans paid for almost two decades quite a lot of Deutschmarks for me to become economically active and start paying them back. And what did I do? I buggered off to England and paid taxes there. HMRC got a tax-payer FOR FREE !! HOW IS THIS NOT AWESOME ?!?!?!?

                        MY point is, you just can't dumb down an issue like immigration to "less immigration is good" becasue it's a complex issue that requires a complex approach. And I'm deliberately not say "complex solution" becasue "solution" would suggest that something has been dealt with and will no longer be "an issue" from here on. Instead, it's an issue that will require managing forever and for anyone suggesting that it is an issue that can be solved is simply lying to the voters for the exclusive purpose of keeping thier job. I mean, people like Nigel Farage are just leeching off the society and are poisoning the political process just so he can himself his next packet of fags.... And yes, I am picking on him because he is the most obvious example of politician that is the problem here but there are plenty of others that engage in the same shenanigans maybe to a lesser extent.

                        Cheers.

                        P.S.: I hope the Tories get annihilated
                        Last edited by Svensson; 06-03-2024, 09:27 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by C. F. Leon View Post
                          [...] there was a sizable (and very LOUD) boycott of the student store for the rest of the semester.
                          lol, I thought you were gonna say "rest of the week"

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Svensson View Post
                            I mean, people like Nigel Farage are just leeching off the society and are poisoning the political process just so he can himself his next packet of fags....
                            And right on cue, Nigel Farage is taking over the Loony Toony "Reform UK" party, which I think is his fourth incarnation of "sticking it to the establishment" of which is so badly wants to be part of. So badly, he will even stand in a ward that he has never heard of and where he's never been and has no intention of moving there either.

                            Just so he can keep that supply of fags going.

                            As a reason for his change of heart is his perception "that the country is in moral decline" (as if he's the cure for that...) and that "we have forgotten who we are as a country" ,a platitude so empty of actual meaning it is danger of being used as a vacuum chamber by scientists.

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                            • #29
                              I seen the Great Frog has spoken. That’s all we need another populist liar. What did Clacton do to deserve this?

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
                                For me the problem is that politicians think that their job is to get into power and then to try and convince the population of what they should want them to do for them. Mandatory voting will never happen because if we had everyone voting the political parties would be told what the people of this country really want and it’s not what they themselves want because they don’t represent the majority. I’ve always voted Labour but I have to say that the things that the public actually want to happen are traditionally considered positions that usually sit on the right of politics. People want the streets making safer…police on the streets and in cars patrolling to prevent rather than simply reacting….they want far tougher sentencing as a deterrent…..they want a serious and drastic curb/cut on immigration….they want a move away from the ‘hate England and its history’ mentally and cancel culture….they want the NHS sorting out and the government to step in and sort out our GP’s (who now appear to be all powerful). None of this will happen of course. So we can all give up.
                                Hi Herlock,

                                Everything you list here as what people 'want' costs money, but if those same people want tax cuts, rather than tax rises, they ain't gonna get what they want - or what they need.

                                First on my wish list would be the renationalisation of our water and sewage services.

                                Second would be to reverse Brexit - but sadly it will take a brave politician to go down that road and why the hell would the EU want us back?

                                Love,

                                Caz
                                X
                                "Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious." Peter Ustinov


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