Just where do we go from here?

[Limehouse]

Cultural Relativism at its worst.

There are not 'good and bad' everywhere, with the inference being in equal amounts.

There are some countries in this world that are absolute **** holes populated by people who walk round with heads on sticks and are still trying to master fire.

You talk about 'shameful'?! Jesus. This country has a tradition of liberty, hard fought liberty over centuries. To suggest that this country is no different to some of those **** holes out there where they have little concept of liberty and individual freedoms, is 'shameful' and evidently false.

I never inferred that there is good and bad in equal amounts. I was simply pointing out that it is unfair to brand all Muslims with the actions of a few.

I am struggling to agree that this country has a 'tradition of liberty, hard fought liberty over centuries'. Women have had the vote in this country for less than a century. Homosexuality was illegal until I was 10 years old. Until up to less than 40 years ago, it was legal the discriminate against someone on the grounds of their colour, gender, sexuality, ability/disability and race.

Certainly, there are countries with appalling human rights records that are shameful. I would speak up for their citizens' rights just as strongly as I would speak out against discrimination in this country.

[Phil Carter]

Is it the religious aspect of SUNDAY that "gets em going" ...just asking

Hello Joe,

Any day will do...apparently....


Phil

[Smoking Joe]

I am struggling to agree that this country has a 'tradition of liberty, hard fought liberty over centuries'. Women have had the vote in this country for less than a century. Homosexuality was illegal until I was 10 years old. Until up to less than 40 years ago, it was legal the discriminate against someone on the grounds of their colour, gender, sexuality, ability/disability and race.

.

Well Homosexuality is legal now..even encouraged in our schools.
Women have the vote.
Its illegal to discriminate.
So what on earth are you complaining about?
People fought for those things in this country and won.
Stop living in the past and fighting wars that have long ended.Try living as a woman in Iran and see if you even get a chance to complain.You would most likely end up being strung up on a neighbours washing line.
We in the west have never had it so good,even allowing for the present financial difficulties.The west is a bastion of liberty and freedom,and the fact that some people feel they are discriminated against because they are not allowed to crap in the street bothers me not one iota. You should definitely travel a bit,it might open your eyes,thus allowing you to appreciate that which you allready have.

[Ally]

Wait, Ally, be patient...

I have until Friday to reply.

But as a Christian, on Saturday, I'm not allowed to switch my computer on.

And I am sure your eventual reply will be just as informed about the religion you profess to be as all your previous replies.

[Limehouse]

Well Homosexuality is legal now..even encouraged in our schools.
Women have the vote.
Its illegal to discriminate.
So what on earth are you complaining about?
People fought for those things in this country and won.
Stop living in the past and fighting wars that have long ended.Try living as a woman in Iran and see if you even get a chance to complain.You would most likely end up being strung up on a neighbours washing line.
We in the west have never had it so good,even allowing for the present financial difficulties.The west is a bastion of liberty and freedom,and the fact that some people feel they are discriminated against because they are not allowed to crap in the street bothers me not one iota. You should definitely travel a bit,it might open your eyes,thus allowing you to appreciate that which you allready have.

I am not complaining or living in the past. I was responding to a post by a contributor who said we had a centuries old tradition of liberty in this country. That is not actually the case. It is more recent than that.

I DO appreciate what I have. It is YOU who is complaining. Your comment:

'The west is a bastion of liberty and freedom, and the fact that some people feel they are discriminated against because they are not allowed to crap in the street bothers me not one iota'.

just sums up the limits of YOUR understanding.

And by the way - we have crossed swords before - and you were not called Smoking Joe in those days - but your message is the same.

[Smoking Joe]

And by the way - we have crossed swords before - and you were not called Smoking Joe in those days - but your message is the same.

That remark puzzles me greatly. Did we meet at Al Quaedas H.Q in Afghanistan way back in 2001? Or was it in Iran in ...say 2004? As for any message remaining the same,I believe the Woolwich atrocity only occurred a few days ago..
What an odd thing to say. But never mind .I will forgive you.

[Fleetwood Mac]

I never inferred that there is good and bad in equal amounts. I was simply pointing out that it is unfair to brand all Muslims with the actions of a few.

I am struggling to agree that this country has a 'tradition of liberty, hard fought liberty over centuries'. Women have had the vote in this country for less than a century. Homosexuality was illegal until I was 10 years old. Until up to less than 40 years ago, it was legal the discriminate against someone on the grounds of their colour, gender, sexuality, ability/disability and race.

Certainly, there are countries with appalling human rights records that are shameful. I would speak up for their citizens' rights just as strongly as I would speak out against discrimination in this country.

The 'good and bad everywhere' line means one thing and we both know it.

This country doesn't have a tradition of liberty? Magna Carta, Parliamentary Democracy etc. Legal to discriminate? Good thing too. Why should a private organisation be dictated to by the government?

But, at least you agree, in a back-handed way, that some countries have an appalling human rights record, although you do couch it in the view that England does not have a tradition of liberty. I think this will come as news to a lot of people around the world.

[Smoking Joe]

The 'good and bad everywhere' line means one thing and we both know it.

This country doesn't have a tradition of liberty? Magna Carta, Parliamentary Democracy etc. Legal to discriminate? Good thing too. Why should a private organisation be dictated to by the government?

But, at least you agree, in a back-handed way, that some countries have an appalling human rights record, although you do couch it in the view that England does not have a tradition of liberty. I think this will come as news to a lot of people around the world.

Sanity at last! Nice post.

[Limehouse]

The 'good and bad everywhere' line means one thing and we both know it.

This country doesn't have a tradition of liberty? Magna Carta, Parliamentary Democracy etc. Legal to discriminate? Good thing too. Why should a private organisation be dictated to by the government?

But, at least you agree, in a back-handed way, that some countries have an appalling human rights record, although you do couch it in the view that England does not have a tradition of liberty. I think this will come as news to a lot of people around the world.

Certainly some organisations have enjoyed the 'liberty' to discriminate against people on the grounds of their colour. One example of this is, in
1963, black men who were denied employment on the buses in Bristol on the grounds of their colour. Some of these men had fought for this country in WW2. They were also denied decent housing - on the grounds of their colour. Funny that their colour did not seem to be a problem when they were risking their lives for our liberty.

[DVV]

Reply in disguise

And I am sure your eventual reply will be just as informed about the religion you profess to be as all your previous replies.

Oh, I've already replied, as everybody (but you) can see.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Certainly some organisations have enjoyed the 'liberty' to discriminate against people on the grounds of their colour. One example of this is, in
1963, black men who were denied employment on the buses in Bristol on the grounds of their colour. Some of these men had fought for this country in WW2. They were also denied decent housing - on the grounds of their colour. Funny that their colour did not seem to be a problem when they were risking their lives for our liberty.

Gotta love the left.

They pick out a minor detail in the wider process and attempt to use it as the rule.

Just take a moment to think about the progression of English liberty over hundreds of years.

I agree with you about employment on grounds of any type of discrimination. Let the best man/woman win as far as I'm concerned.

But, why should any immigrant of any background be 'given decent housing'? What are we: a ******* charity?! You want decent housing then work for it like the rest of us.

[Ally]

Oh, I've already replied, as everybody (but you) can see.

I am not denying you replied. I am merely pointing out the significant lack of substance and awareness contained within your replies.

[Limehouse]

Gotta love the left.

They pick out a minor detail in the wider process and attempt to use it as the rule.

Just take a moment to think about the progression of English liberty over hundreds of years.

I agree with you about employment on grounds of any type of discrimination. Let the best man/woman win as far as I'm concerned.

But, why should any immigrant of any background be 'given decent housing'? What are we: a ******* charity?! You want decent housing then work for it like the rest of us.

The 'progression of English liberty over hundreds of years' favoured some over others and openly and legally discriminated against people so that they could not enjoy the liberty you so much favour. It was liberty for a few.

Concerning your second point, they WERE prepared to work for it - except the bus company would not employ them - because they were black and they WERE willing to pay rent for decent housing - but they kept finding notices in windows - 'No Blacks, No Irish, No Dogs'

[Beowulf]

The name Neville Chamberlain comes to mind.

[DVV]

Exactly, Beowulf.
It's not only about terrorism.
They hate our food, our drinks, our art, our shows, our literature, our freedom.
And always find people to defend them.

Timeo hominem unius libri.