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  • The boy can't even answer a simple question, asked repeatedly and given days to think about it . Don't confuse the issue Mark! Because then we'd have to go into how the military forces all kinds of vaccinations on the troops and the Republicans have never pitched a single fit, and what's the big whoop now, and that's a whole spiral about the single issue politics of perception. And then we'd have to go into how the police and fire department and libraries (which actually Republicans are now also shockingly against, they love nothing better than a uneducated populace, see above) are socialism, and free paved roads and why should my tax dollars pay for your neighborhood street to be paved, I don't drive on it, all maintained by the government, all socialism.

    And now he's going to answer your question with random blather instead of addressing the question he's been dodging for days:

    Celee,

    Do you think that Nazi Eugenics are an example of Socialized Medicine? Yes or no. Really simple, question, really puzzling why you can't just answer it. For days.

    Let all Oz be agreed;
    I'm Wicked through and through.

    Comment


    • "You are correct it is not the official party platform. However, the majority of the leaders in the Democrat Party were referring to themselves as Democrat socialists.I am glad to hear they changed their label to social Democrats. That makes them sound friendly. Biden came out today claiming to be a capitalist. I bet none of you even bothered to watch Biden's press conference. Can you explain to me what a social Democrat is compared to a democrat socialist? I have asked you multiple times and you never answer. What do you like about the American Democrat Party?"

      Tbh, I don't know what a democratic socialist is, it is a term I have never heard but I do know what a social democrat is because we have social democrat parties in Europe. The are usually all for a well-regulated capitalism model coupled with protecting worker's rights and state subsidised support for families via childcare options and other infrastructure that makes life a little easier for those ho do NOT happen to earn 100k USD a year or more (places like Monaco and Brunei aside, that is the case in most countries). The new German Chancellor Olaf Schröder is actually a Social Democrat and he was able to form a government with the Liberal Democrats (fee market capitalists) and the german Green Party.

      the US democratic party is essentially where the European right is. Both advocate for healthcare for all, renewable energy, phasing out combustion engines over the next 20 years and building public transport options, free or cheap childcare (the UK is a bit of an outlier here), sick pay, parental leave, LGBTQ rights, gun-regulation, pro-choice and a fair asylum process. None of these issues are controversial here. All of these policy positions were either introduced or supported by the vast majority of European Centre Right governments.

      So by your definition of the democratic party, we have have been living in a radical left-wing socialist society for decades in Europe. But I can tell you that this is not the case. Living standards are high, we have higher levels of social justice and social mobility and we have less crime than the US. There is plenty of private business around here (which is not permitted in a truly socialist society).

      The foxhole's "radical socialist" boogeyman does not exist.
      Last edited by Svensson; 01-20-2022, 11:48 AM.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Ally View Post
        The boy can't even answer a simple question, asked repeatedly and given days to think about it . Don't confuse the issue Mark! Because then we'd have to go into how the military forces all kinds of vaccinations on the troops and the Republicans have never pitched a single fit, and what's the big whoop now, and that's a whole spiral about the single issue politics of perception. And then we'd have to go into how the police and fire department and libraries (which actually Republicans are now also shockingly against, they love nothing better than a uneducated populace, see above) are socialism, and free paved roads and why should my tax dollars pay for your neighborhood street to be paved, I don't drive on it, all maintained by the government, all socialism.

        And now he's going to answer your question with random blather instead of addressing the question he's been dodging for days:

        Celee,

        Do you think that Nazi Eugenics are an example of Socialized Medicine? Yes or no. Really simple, question, really puzzling why you can't just answer it. For days.
        It’s reminiscent of the tactic that was used by many to denigrate Darwin’s research and findings.
        Regards

        Herlock Sholmes

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Ally View Post
          The boy can't even answer a simple question, asked repeatedly and given days to think about it . Don't confuse the issue Mark!
          If the recording is still online and findable, you may derive amusement from the awkward moment that ensued a decade or so back when one of the US ruling elite said in a TV interview that the US military had socialized medicine because 'they need to have the very best' (or some such expression). Clearly, 'the very best' meant 'treatment according to need and free at the point of delivery', not 'treatment except when the money has been given to stockholders and you don't have the means to pay'.

          For the rest, it must be two years since my ex- and I sat roaring with laughter at a Forbes graphic that proudly displayed the outrageous fantasy that the US was *number one in the world* for ability to handle a pandemic. Our hilarity proved absolutely realistic. A land of *make-believe*...

          dcara9cl05j41.jpg (960×1440) (redd.it)

          M.
          Last edited by Mark J D; 01-20-2022, 11:53 AM.

          Comment


          • Aren't we *already* tending toward socialized medicine, with the COVID-19 vaccines and boosters being free to all comers, and now plans being made for free N95 masks (4 to a household!) and free COVID-19 home test kits? Yeah, just so.

            Anti-vaccine sentiment has a lot to do with misguided information offered about a decade ago about childhood immunizations leading to autism. It's based on an observation of two things: That *some* young children who received their regular vaccines on schedule, *then* began to display symptoms of autism or other developmental irregularities. Never mind that no connection between the two has been proved in, oh, a scientific study somewhere. Nor that the early childhood vaccine schedule just may coincide with when autism symptoms begin to be seen.

            Others, particularly minorities, distrust the government health system because of covert atrocities done to their ancestors-- including the forced sterilization of Native American, Latina, and Black women under the guise of "health care."

            I support a socialized health care system in this country, but the battle will be very hard. Especially with the Republican Senate today clinging to the filibuster of 60 votes needed to pass, period. Who remembers the plain "talking filibuster"? Let them talk, then vote, majority gets it, whether sixty or not.

            The election rights debacle annoys me, and only points out that Republicans want their power more than to preserve democracy. Exactly what they claim about Democrats.

            I think Republicans want to preserve racism, while claiming the opposite. (This is an opinion.)

            Pat D. https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...rt/reading.gif
            ---------------
            Von Konigswald: Jack the Ripper plays shuffleboard. -- Happy Birthday, Wanda June by Kurt Vonnegut, c.1970.
            ---------------

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes
              It’s reminiscent of the tactic that was used by many to denigrate Darwin’s research and findings.
              Well of course, because my opinion and my belief matters more than facts. Therefore your facts are wrong. Duh.


              Originally posted by Mark J D View Post

              For the rest, it must be two years since my ex- and I sat roaring with laughter at a Forbes graphic that proudly displayed the outrageous fantasy that the US was *number one in the world* for ability to handle a pandemic. Our hilarity proved absolutely realistic.

              dcara9cl05j41.jpg (960×1440) (redd.it)

              M.
              Well to be fair that graphic was ranked in 2019 and they were probably still going off the metrics from *before* Trump disbanded the Pandemic response team in 2018. Because pandemics are a thing of the past you know. They don't happen now. This is all a hoax, fake news, and JFK is coming back to lead us all into a glorious future. Or something.

              Let all Oz be agreed;
              I'm Wicked through and through.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Mark J D View Post

                I sat roaring with laughter at a Forbes graphic that proudly displayed the outrageous fantasy that the US was *number one in the world* for ability to handle a pandemic. Our hilarity proved absolutely realistic. A land of *make-believe*...

                dcara9cl05j41.jpg (960×1440) (redd.it)

                M.
                well, they MAY have been had the Trump adminisration followed the run-book that was left to them from previous administrations.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Pcdunn View Post
                  Aren't we *already* tending toward socialized medicine, with the COVID-19 vaccines and boosters being free to all comers, and now plans being made for free N95 masks (4 to a household!) and free COVID-19 home test kits? Yeah, just so.
                  Does this not look less like 'socialized medicine' and more like 'the increased corporate capture of government spending on a public health pretext'?

                  M.
                  Last edited by Mark J D; 01-20-2022, 12:12 PM.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Svensson View Post

                    well, they MAY have been had the Trump adminisration followed the run-book that was left to them from previous administrations.
                    My analysis was actually that the US is never able properly to acknowledge the catastrophic mediocrity of its healthcare services and institutions.

                    M.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Mark J D View Post

                      Does this not look less like 'socialized medicine' and more like 'the increased corporate capture of government spending on a public health pretext'?

                      M.
                      Maybe. I'm no economics student, truth be told. Numbers frighten me.
                      Pat D. https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...rt/reading.gif
                      ---------------
                      Von Konigswald: Jack the Ripper plays shuffleboard. -- Happy Birthday, Wanda June by Kurt Vonnegut, c.1970.
                      ---------------

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Svensson View Post

                        well, they MAY have been had the Trump adminisration followed the run-book that was left to them from previous administrations.
                        The one that was supposedly tossed in the trash can?
                        Pat D. https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...rt/reading.gif
                        ---------------
                        Von Konigswald: Jack the Ripper plays shuffleboard. -- Happy Birthday, Wanda June by Kurt Vonnegut, c.1970.
                        ---------------

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Mark J D View Post

                          Does this not look less like 'socialized medicine' and more like 'the increased corporate capture of government spending'?

                          M.
                          Don't even get me started on the amount of money the government gives insurance companies to deny people health coverage. It pisses me off extremely. I could rant for days. Americans are getting SCREWED by Insurance and Pharmaceutical companies to a ridiculous degree in this country and the people who are getting it the worst are the ones who keep begging to be beat. It boggles my damn mind. The insurance company I pay hundreds to denied my claim, okay let me go beg my just as poor friends to pay for my health needs while we all post memes about how Democrats and Socialism are destroying the country. I don't have a week that goes by without having some American friend/family/acquaintance/friend of a friend begging for money to fund healthcare needs and I've only ever had that happen once with any person living in a socialized medicine country and that was to pay for an experimental drug that wasn't approved. It's ... ridiculous.

                          Let all Oz be agreed;
                          I'm Wicked through and through.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Ally View Post
                            ... the people who are getting it the worst are the ones who keep begging to be beat. It boggles my damn mind.
                            One of my old jobs was at a UK university that had pioneered 'occupational health' services for employees decades ago. We were still in touch with an immensely elderly medic who'd played a major role in this advance in combination with working in the US. He said that what he never, ever understood was how *even the medical students* he taught over there were possessed by the unchallengeable conviction that *no-one should get medical treatment unless they had the wherewithal to pay for it*. How does a society come to be that sick?

                            M.
                            Last edited by Mark J D; 01-20-2022, 12:34 PM.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Pcdunn View Post

                              Maybe. I'm no economics student, truth be told. Numbers frighten me.
                              As briefly as possible: socialized medicine wouldn't be buying services from businesses that siphoned that public money into a rabbit-warren of boardroom bonuses and stockholder payouts...

                              M.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Mark J D View Post

                                As briefly as possible: socialized medicine wouldn't be buying services from businesses that siphoned that public money into a rabbit-warren of boardroom bonuses and stockholder payouts...

                                M.
                                Good. That stuff is terrible. I'm sure it led to the painkiller addiction epidemic now wreaking havoc in this country.
                                Pat D. https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...rt/reading.gif
                                ---------------
                                Von Konigswald: Jack the Ripper plays shuffleboard. -- Happy Birthday, Wanda June by Kurt Vonnegut, c.1970.
                                ---------------

                                Comment

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