SlutWalks

[Ally]

Does locking ones doors deter a thief? Yes.

Does wearing frumpy clothes deter a rape? No.

Im merely saying that by dressing as a slut in an environment where a potential rapist might be hovering,then the sluttily dressed women would be more likely to be seen as a poytential victim by the would be rapist'.

Really. You are quite possibly the most mentally challenged individual I've come across in a while. "in an environment where a potential rapist might be hovering" Really? do tell me, what precisely is that environment? Women are raped in their homes. Women are raped in bathrooms in gas stations, women are raped while jogging in public parks. Women are raped in their office. Women are raped in schools, in their classrooms. Women are raped in hospitals.

Potential rapists are "hovering" in every given situation and location on the freaking planet. There isn't a "rapists hot spot" What does wardrobe have to do with it?

None of us can be totally protected against most forms of crime,but we can all take steps to lessen the likelihood. Sticking ones boobs in peoples face,or showing ones backside to each and every passer by hardly indicates any desire to protect oneself against the attentions of would be rapists.

And yet, once again, you completely miss the point. There is no cause effect relationship with "sticking ones boobs out" and being raped.

There. IS. NO. RELATIONSHIP. Ones dress has nothing to do, with ones likelihood of being raped. There is NO CAUSE AND EFFECT.

That is the point you are failing to grasp. You keep saying dressing like a slut increases the chance. You. are. wrong. It does not. There is no relationship between ones dress and ones likelihood of being attacked.

[babybird67]

for the Bob/Glyn variety of 'man'

http://thestar.com.my/fightcrime/resources/story.asp?file=/2006/3/11/resources/20060315165250&sec=resources

Myth Five: Women who dress sexily provoke rape
Reality: Police statistics show that about 60% of rape victims are below the age of 16. Teenagers in school uniforms have been raped. Women wearing headscarves and dressed conservatively have been raped. No woman or child asks to be raped. The propagation of this myth puts the blame on women and excuses rapists for their actions.

How does it feel to be part of this? To make victims feel to blame for being the victim of crime? To give rapists an excuse for what is one of the most appalling possible crimes?

I just hope you don't have female relatives, because if I was aware of a male relative of mine having such a view, it would disgust me and I don't think i would ever speak to them again.

And seeing as this quote refers to Police statistics, perhaps that ignorant police officer should do a bit more research before giving out false information and making it easier for rapists and their apologists to justify what they do.

[babybird67]

widespread ignorance

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=16393921&method=full&siteid=115875&headline=asking-for-it-name_page.html

Looks like there are quite a few blinkered sexists still out there.

More details of the myth:

Utah State University Sexual Assault and Anti Violence Information

Myth: Rape victims provoke the attach by wearing provocative clothing

- A Federal Commission on Crime of Violence Study found that only
4.4% of all reported rapes involved provocative behavior on the part
of the victim. In murder cases 22% involved such behavior (as simple
as a glance).

- Most convicted rapists do not remember what their victims were wearing.

- Victims range in age from days old to those in their nineties,
hardly provocative dressers.

Utah State University

I haven't found a single site yet which states there is any correlation between what a woman wears and whether she is raped. There are tips on keeping yourself safe, and not a single one states you should dress a certain way to avoid rape. The messae should be going out to the rapist that there is NO excuse for touching anybody without their consent, whatever they are wearing or not wearing.

Only rapists can end rape. Below are some things you can do to protect yourself:

•Challenge the myths and stereotypes.

•Communicate clearly. Examine and express your sexual limits before you enter into a sexual situation.

•Avoid vulnerable situations. Meet new people in public places, or double date until you know each other well.

•Let someone know where you are going and what time you expect to be back.

•Limit your use of alcohol and other drugs. It is much harder to be in control of a situation if you are under the influence.

•Be assertive. Insist that you are treated with respect.

Sometimes, no matter what you do, you may be the victim of a sexual assault. It is important to NEVER feel guilty for what you did or did not decide to do.

From : http://webs.wichita.edu/?u=police&p=...exual_assault/

You cannot dress to protect yourself from rape. Analogies with unlocked cars are totally inappropriate and inapt.

The blame for rape lies with one person and one person alone - the rapist. End of.

[glyn]

Does locking ones doors deter a thief? Yes.

Does wearing frumpy clothes deter a rape? No.




Really. You are quite possibly the most mentally challenged individual I've come across in a while. "in an environment where a potential rapist might be hovering" Really? do tell me, what precisely is that environment? Women are raped in their homes. Women are raped in bathrooms in gas stations, women are raped while jogging in public parks. Women are raped in their office. Women are raped in schools, in their classrooms. Women are raped in hospitals.

Potential rapists are "hovering" in every given situation and location on the freaking planet. There isn't a "rapists hot spot" What does wardrobe have to do with it?



And yet, once again, you completely miss the point. There is no cause effect relationship with "sticking ones boobs out" and being raped.

There. IS. NO. RELATIONSHIP. Ones dress has nothing to do, with ones likelihood of being raped. There is NO CAUSE AND EFFECT.

That is the point you are failing to grasp. You keep saying dressing like a slut increases the chance. You. are. wrong. It does not. There is no relationship between ones dress and ones likelihood of being attacked.

The environment is the environment we live in.Id hazard a guess that that environment might well include gas stations,public parks,nightclubs, seaside shithouses,and any other location that you may have failed to mention....or forgotten about.Rapist "hotspots"? maybe that was,or wasnt a Freudian slip on your behalf?
You appear to be someone who perhaps cannot see the wood for the trees,on occasion perhaps not being able to even see the trees. A few quotes following...
a» Rape statistics show young and sexually attractive females are raped far more often than older, less sexually attractive females (Warren Farrell, The Myth of Male Powe

» There is a strong correlation between wearing revealing clothes and rape cases (Thornhill and Palmer, A Natural History of Rape)

The facts pretty much speak for themselves. Even though the factors that contribute to sexual assault vary greatly (society, upbringing, psychological state, socio-biology, etc), there is very little doubt that donning an indecent attire is one of them. While it is virtually impossible to determine exactly why people perpetrate these heinous crimes, we should stop engaging ourselves in the constant denial that sexy clothes do not contribute to the rise of sexual crimes at all.

» While it is impossible to prove the causal relationship between wearing revealing clothes and rape, there is a strong likelihood that it is one of the contributing factors.
After all, they say that it is utterly preposterous to link sexy attire with incidents of rape and that women should completely absolve themselves if they fall victim to it. In my humble opinion, these so-called popular opinions are based mainly on irrational emotions, strong personal biases and delusions of gender inequality. There are no statistics or empirical evidence provided, no research studies or scientific papers quoted, and no formal reasoning applied whatsoever. In this age of science and reason, random baseless comments do not quite cut it anymore:

end of quotes..
"Mentally challenged" must be a phrase you use often,unfortunately it helps your argument "not one whit" ...but carry on it livens things up......now I better reply to your entourage-lest they feel neglected.

[Ally]

Let's see, two guys who are attempting to portray rape as having a biological basis against all the actual rapists who say they can't remember what their victims were wearing. Huh. One flawed and challenged study against the weight of ..oh dozens of others that conclude the exact opposite. Huh. Let me think, let me think. Does the term reaching come to mind?

All those grandmother's and eight year olds who are raped should really be ashamed of themselves for being such provocative sluts.

People like Glyn, there is just no reasoning with them. They are swayed by their beliefs, and not by an fact. They are the equivalent of racists, and bigots of any type.

God help the women in their lives. It's going to be a shame when their teen daughters come home one day having been raped, and they get the blame for being sluts.

And no honey, I don't use mentally challenged often, only when it applies. Which in your case would be often.

[glyn]

There is also a difference between attributing blame and advocating.

You want to attribute blame to people for happening to own something that others want to steal and daring to walk down the street with it, but also want to refuse to admit you are attributing blame, because you were not advocating the act. Gosh no, you weren't encouraging it. You were just implying it was the fault of the victim. Entirely different...

Nope......didnt blame anyone for owning anything,didnt blame the victim for the crime either. I said the victims were ,by their actions",increasing the likelihood of the crime being committed" So you had better try again to distort what I said ,your last attempt was pitiable.
Re post where you wrote "I could make jokes ,but YOU werent allowed to"
What on earth are you blathering about? Thats another thing I didnt write,but I guess thats a minor point here.

[babybird67]

» There is a strong correlation between wearing revealing clothes and rape cases (Thornhill and Palmer, A Natural History of Rape)

You sure you wanted to allude to this study/theory Glyn? You're aligning yourself with men who think that rape is 'natural'.

Thornhill and Palmer argue that rape evolved as an "alternative mating strategy", and they contend that it is a "natural, biological phenomenon and a product of our evolutionary heritage". They also take issue with the idea that rape is fundamentally an act of violence.

Indeed, this is the view of one other scientist on their offering:

Evolutionary biologist Jerry Coyne of the University of Chicago has called the book "the worst efflorescence of evolutionary psychology that I have ever seen", claiming that it is "irresponsible, tendentious and the science is sloppy". Rape, he says, is pathological, not natural.

And their views have been countered here too:

"There is no evidence that scanty dress induces rape," Coyne says. As for Thornhill and Palmer's recommendation that young men be educated about the evolutionary basis of rape, Mary Koss, professor of public health at the University of Arizona and an authority on rape, says: "(They) have obviously never stood up before a group and given a rape-prevention talk. If you even imply to a male audience that all men are potential rapists, They go berserk!" THE EVOLUTIONARY BASIS OF RAPE

Claiming an evolutionary basis for rape would tar most men with the same brush and is clearly utter nonsense.

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?storyCode=150003&sectioncode=26

Where they put their clubs down in order to write their research is anyone's guess, but I personally wouldn't like to rely on a half-baked theory like that one.

So as well as it being a woman's fault for dressing provocatively, it's now not the rapist's fault because it's evolution/genes that are responsible?

So why can the majority of men control their behaviour and not commit crimes against women then?

[glyn]

[QUOTE=babybird67;180505]http://thestar.com.my/fightcrime/res...&sec=resources




I just hope you don't have female relatives, because if I was aware of a male relative of mine having such a view, it would disgust me and I don't think i would ever speak to them again.

QUOTE]

Im hoping you might allow me the same privilege
regards
The Bob/Glyn type man

[TomTomKent]

Like murders the majority of sexual assualts are familial. All both of my friends who suffered at the hands of their partners at the time. The biggest myth we have to bust is that rapists are more likely to be strangers.

Unfortunately a growing minority are...

[glyn]

You sure you wanted to allude to this study/theory Glyn? You're aligning yourself with men who think that rape is 'natural'.

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?storyCode=150003&sectioncode=26

Where they put their clubs down in order to write their research is anyone's guess, but I personally wouldn't like to rely on a half-baked theory like that one.

So as well as it being a woman's fault for dressing provocatively, it's now not the rapist's fault because it's evolution/genes that are responsible?

So why can the majority of men control their behaviour and not commit crimes against women then?

Evolution and genes are responsible for most things surely?
Im not aligning myself with anyone or any book ,I used those quotes to show that others had came to similar conclusions.It made a refreshing change to see "other" conclusions than the barrage of b.s that has been unfurled here.Now those sources may be dated,but that doesnt make the conclusions necessarilly invalid.I could have found more recent sources perhaps. Opinions are the order of the day arent they?.....well arent they?

[glyn]

Like murders the majority of sexual assualts are familial. All both of my friends who suffered at the hands of their partners at the time. The biggest myth we have to bust is that rapists are more likely to be strangers.

Unfortunately a growing minority are...

That puts me in mind of an offering on a completely different website forum ...it went thus..
" I walked from the start of the trail,to the end of the trail,and still dont know where it began or where it finished"

[Ally]

That's okay Glyn. We understand now. You agree that all men are rapists by design. You are a rapist at heart and every time you see an attractive woman, showing off, you are compelled to rape her. It's entirely uncontrollable based on your biology.

Of course, we just think you are a pig, but if you want to argue biological imperative, that makes you and all men rapist pigs, feel free. That'll get you far.

[babybird67]

Evolution and genes are responsible for most things surely?

Are they? SO you're on the side of the nature debate then. Nurture doesn't come into it, and if a paedophile is programmed that way he should be allowed to abuse children cos his genes are to blame not him? Maybe you think the little girl was provocative for wearing a pretty dress. After all, a female should dress in a black sack to protect herself shouldn't she.

Im not aligning myself with anyone or any book

Yes you are. You quoted them, quite pleased with yourself.

,I used those quotes to show that others had came to similar conclusions.It made a refreshing change to see "other" conclusions than the barrage of b.s that has been unfurled here.

Nice to see you think Police statistics are bs but two evolutionary psychologists are gods.

Now those sources may be dated,but that doesnt make the conclusions necessarilly invalid.I could have found more recent sources perhaps. Opinions are the order of the day arent they?.....well arent they?

If you have their book perhaps you can quote the actual research they have done? As yet I can't find any.

[glyn]

Let's see, two guys who are attempting to portray rape People like Glyn, there is just no reasoning with them. They are swayed by their beliefs, and not by an fact. They are the equivalent of racists, and bigots of any type.

God help the women in their lives. It's going to be a shame when their teen daughters come home one day having been raped, and they get the blame for being sluts.

Which in your case would be often.

Great! Thank you Ally......Ive been here 1 week and finally got called a Racist and a Bigot.....The equivalent I guess of getting ones name scrawled on their workplaces shithouse wall. Fame !
Ah i see!,NOW if my wife and/or daughter gets raped,its my fault! Gee! such giant leaps in psuedo logic, ruminations of madmen/women. And you have the cheek to call others mentally challenged?

[Ally]

Once again, mental midget, try reading. I didn't say if your wife or daughter gets raped it's your fault. I said I feel sorry for them because you are the type of dick who would make them feel like it's THEIR fault.