No limits to immigration

[Bob Hinton]

I love going to the different festivals and seeing customs and costumes and experiencing different art amd music and food.

.

So do I - that's why I travel. But what is going to happen in fifty years time when we want to experience the British way of life - where will we go to see that?

A person’s heritage and culture is inextricably linked to their land and country. When you go to see these festivals in Britain what you are seeing is people saying “This is what life was like in my homeland”. Personally speaking I don’t want to see a reproduction – I want the real thing. Watching a film of something cannot replace actually being there.

I will never forget when my wife and son were invited to go and see fire walking for the first time. Standing there, feeling the heat, smelling the charcoal was unforgettable. Staying in this country and just watching a film for instance wouldn’t be the same.

[Bob Hinton]

Oh really...

It's amazing isn't it. Someone posts a story about 80% of cash machine crime being committed by Romas, France states that over 80% of street crime is being committed by the same group of criminals from Romania, and yet still LTT insists that this is wrong. Despite Scotland Yard setting up a seperate task force to deal with criminals from Eastern Europe way back in 2003, apparently there is no need.

The Home Office is wrong, the French Government is wrong, Scotland Yard is wrong - thank goodness we have LTT who is obviously always right!

It must be a bit of a bugger for LTT to leave his house in the morning - the path must be piled high with dead messengers!

[Robert]

"Quite frankly I like foreigners better anyway. If I have to choose between sitting next to an African Muslim and a white Christian, I'm never ever going to pick the white Christian."

If anyone here were to say that they prefer sitting next to a white Christian to sitting next to an African Moslem, they would instantly be denounced as racist and in many cases they would lose their job.

Re segregation, maybe we can have just two kinds of schools : those staffed by teachers who can add up and subtract, and those staffed by teachers who can't. Then parents could decide which school to send their kids to.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-13910793

[TomTomKent]

It's amazing isn't it. Someone posts a story about 80% of cash machine crime being committed by Romas, France states that over 80% of street crime is being committed by the same group of criminals from Romania, and yet still LTT insists that this is wrong. Despite Scotland Yard setting up a seperate task force to deal with criminals from Eastern Europe way back in 2003, apparently there is no need.

The Home Office is wrong, the French Government is wrong, Scotland Yard is wrong - thank goodness we have LTT who is obviously always right!

It must be a bit of a bugger for LTT to leave his house in the morning - the path must be piled high with dead messengers!

So which of my points was wrong. The one that said the story was debunked and debated at the time (for which I provided a link to a newspaper debunking the story, which shows the over all crime rate to be no greater in the immigrant population than the populationat lage. (Which is something else Scotland Yard said.)

Or was I wrong to say a criminal minority are not representive of the larger group.

Hmm. Poor Bobby Boo, so easily confused. Perhaps Bumpkin thought i was the one who wrote the story I linked to. That did not even say the met was "wrong", but did explain how some statistics were misrepresented. Still Bobby Boo, if youcan't argue against what has actually been said...

[johns]

I don't know why I'm bothering to put my story on here but here goes...

A few years ago, my father had a stroke... and he was rushed to a very good NHS hospital in Redditch, Worcestershire... and after a tough recovery, he's now back to 99% of his former self thanks to the excellent work done by the staff there.

The doctor who was in charge of his treatment was a lovely lady doctor from Ghana. She explained everything to me and the rest of the family and was informative, polite, well educated (obviously) and spoke brilliant English (better than a lot of English folks do).

So no problem then.... except I couldn't help wondering.... wondering about the folks of Ghana... and the fact that they're missing this doctor's skill and knowledge.

She saved my father, and for that we're all eternally grateful, but does that mean that Britain hasn't got doctors who can perform at a similar level? Which means that we have to import doctors from around the globe depriving their homeland of their skills?

Or is it more complex than that? I don't know... but I see an awful lot of young folks in my area who can't even form a coherent sentence, never mind anything more advanced, which I think is one of (perhaps THE) main problems.

Education and "knowing stuff" isn't "cool"... The naughty kids are the cool ones so it seems to me, and the kids who know stuff are "geeks" and "losers" to their peers, and indeed some adults too... Sad...

Solution? No idea.. but I just wanted to chip in with my (probably worthless) 2 cents.

[Limehouse]

So do I - that's why I travel. But what is going to happen in fifty years time when we want to experience the British way of life - where will we go to see that?

A person’s heritage and culture is inextricably linked to their land and country. When you go to see these festivals in Britain what you are seeing is people saying “This is what life was like in my homeland”. Personally speaking I don’t want to see a reproduction – I want the real thing. Watching a film of something cannot replace actually being there.

I will never forget when my wife and son were invited to go and see fire walking for the first time. Standing there, feeling the heat, smelling the charcoal was unforgettable. Staying in this country and just watching a film for instance wouldn’t be the same.

I keep hearing about the 'British wayof life' but no one has yet explained to me what that actually consists of. Is it having a roast dinnner on a Sunday? If so - no one has prevented me from enjoyiong that - or fish and chips if I want to. Is it going to watch civil war reenactments? If so I can do that down the road in Huntingdon. Is it reading George Orwell or Emily Bronte or Dickens or Shakespeare? There are many very well-attended events dedicated to those writers. Is it watching morris dancing? Well - that's not strictly wholly British but it's been a custom for a great number of years and - hey ho - just up the A1 in Stamford yesterday there was a huge morris dancing convention. Is it going to the Glastonbury festival? Well - I did that in 1984 when it was too small to bother televising. Is it visiting Royal Ascot? Well I can't afford that - I don't wear hats and I have to work mid-week.

You see - I can't see that our way of life - what ever that is - is being erroded at all. And you know what? A few weeks back I travelled to Old Trafford to see my football team (Peterbrough United) take part in the play-offs against Huddersfield for a place in the Championship next season. Behind my family was a group of Polish lads who had moved to Peterborough and who had adopted PU as 'their team' just as I did 22 years ago when I moved here from London. They were elated when we walked off with the trophy 3 - 0. They were over the bloody moon. They were showing some loyalty to their adopted city. Good for them.

Of course it is always nice to see festivals in their original countries but not all of us can afford to do so and for some of us long journeys are problematic due to various disabilities.

[Limehouse]

"Quite frankly I like foreigners better anyway. If I have to choose between sitting next to an African Muslim and a white Christian, I'm never ever going to pick the white Christian."

If anyone here were to say that they prefer sitting next to a white Christian to sitting next to an African Moslem, they would instantly be denounced as racist and in many cases they would lose their job.

Re segregation, maybe we can have just two kinds of schools : those staffed by teachers who can add up and subtract, and those staffed by teachers who can't. Then parents could decide which school to send their kids to.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-13910793

Instantly denounced? Are you sure? Do you have actual evidence to back up that statement?

And is it really essential that a very good drama teacher or history teacher can add up and subtract?

Are you family with C S Lewis? Was he not one of the great intellectual minds of his generation? He had to have special coaching to help him pass the quite basic maths test that would allow him to study English and Literature at a top university. He failed the test three times.

[TomTomKent]

Also, as a side note for future reference, the post that quoted heavily from the Mail online 2006 figures for cashpoint crime may need editing to fit with board rules. I think it went over the limit for copy and pasting with out a link. Should be easy to adjust so as not to upset the admin. If i'm wrong on the rules feel free to delete this.

[TomTomKent]

I keep hearing about the 'British wayof life' but no one has yet explained to me what that actually consists of. Is it having a roast dinnner on a Sunday? If so - no one has prevented me from enjoyiong that - or fish and chips if I want to. Is it going to watch civil war reenactments? If so I can do that down the road in Huntingdon. Is it reading George Orwell or Emily Bronte or Dickens or Shakespeare? There are many very well-attended events dedicated to those writers. Is it watching morris dancing? Well - that's not strictly wholly British but it's been a custom for a great number of years and - hey ho - just up the A1 in Stamford yesterday there was a huge morris dancing convention. Is it going to the Glastonbury festival? Well - I did that in 1984 when it was too small to bother televising. Is it visiting Royal Ascot? Well I can't afford that - I don't wear hats and I have to work mid-week.

You see - I can't see that our way of life - what ever that is - is being erroded at all. And you know what? A few weeks back I travelled to Old Trafford to see my football team (Peterbrough United) take part in the play-offs against Huddersfield for a place in the Championship next season. Behind my family was a group of Polish lads who had moved to Peterborough and who had adopted PU as 'their team' just as I did 22 years ago when I moved here from London. They were elated when we walked off with the trophy 3 - 0. They were over the bloody moon. They were showing some loyalty to their adopted city. Good for them.

Of course it is always nice to see festivals in their original countries but not all of us can afford to do so and for some of us long journeys are problematic due to various disabilities.

The british way of life is not threatened by small communities. Limehouse, lewisham, Whitechappel and others show that diverse cultures can add flavour to with out destroying the wider "way of life." In my experience the british way of life is exactly the reason a number of immigrants choose to work here.

[Robert]

Limehouse, where to begin?

First off, you're joking, aren't you? Here's one that stuck in my mind :

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/nov/12/bbc-radio-turban

Secondly, of course one doesn't (as far as I know) need maths to teach, say, PE. But on the link I posted, there was no reference to this in the quote from the NUT. They weren't saying "This is nonsense, because those who fail the tests only teach art, or music, or PE." On the contrary, they seemed happy with a grade C pass in maths and English as the basic requirement. So maybe you'd better have a word with the NUT.

As for Lewis, while not classing him as an intellectual giant, I would agree that he was an interesting and clever man. I found his arguments in favour of Christianity unconvincing, but worth reading.

[Limehouse]

Limehouse, where to begin?

First off, you're joking, aren't you? Here's one that stuck in my mind :

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/nov/12/bbc-radio-turban

Secondly, of course one doesn't (as far as I know) need maths to teach, say, PE. But on the link I posted, there was no reference to this in the quote from the NUT. They weren't saying "This is nonsense, because those who fail the tests only teach art, or music, or PE." On the contrary, they seemed happy with a grade C pass in maths and English as the basic requirement. So maybe you'd better have a word with the NUT.

As for Lewis, while not classing him as an intellectual giant, I would agree that he was an interesting and clever man. I found his arguments in favour of Christianity unconvincing, but worth reading.

I do not think this lady should have been sacked for her remarks but I think she has a huge cheek calling the girl on the other telephone 'uneducated' when she made such an ignorant remark about people who wear turbans.

Her daugher would not be at all 'freaked out' by the sight of a man wearing a Turban is she herself was better educated in the very basics of cultural diversity.

A grade C in maths and English is the very least required by a candidate applying for teacher training college (and at least a C in science if they are applying for primary teaching) but if they were applying to teach English or maths they would need a degree in that subject (or closely related subjects) or would have to be willing to work at degree level in their specialist subject if they are doing a combined Education and Specialist subject degree. These grades are set by the universities - not the NUT.

Just two weeks ago I sat a L2 maths exam (equiv to GCSE A-C) because my maths qualifications are very old (1974/5). This is a requirement of my professional development even though I do no maths teaching what-so-ever. Teachers and lecturers are now required to keep their skills and qualifications up to date and to be continously monitored and observed teaching their subjects.

[TomTomKent]

The sticking point is that teachers of any subject have a unique qualifaction; teacher training in that subject. The entry requirements for THAT are set by the exam board and the college running the course, not the schools employing the teacher, and tend towards a relevant degree. The C grade is for what might be termed "areas of general study". These have to be atleast equivalent to level 3. Like any other discipline, students attending teacher training can suppliment their qualifications with level 3 studies to fill knowledge gaps. (If you left school with out qualifications by the way you are entitled to key courses up to level 3 free of charge through a number of government schemes).

A maths teacher will need teacher training and a degree in a science. Level3 in. English and Maths are the secondary considerations that the Unions believe desirable to ensure standards. But if he got a D in Religious Ed at GCSE? That is unlikely to be a factor.

[Robert]

Limehouse, maybe a law could be brought in to force her daughter on to a racial awareness course.

As for the rest of your remarks, presumably you, and your colleagues, will have no trouble passing the Government's test. Anyone who continually has to resit the tests obviously has literacy-numeracy problems.

[glyn]

have you heard that emigration also occurs alongside immigration? The way you portray the situation is like the UK is a jug just being continually filled and never emptied so it will just end up over flowing. It doesn't work like that. Just as people come here to live and work and retire, so we, the British, go elsewhere to live and work and retire.

It is only relatively recently that immigration to the UK has been greater than emigration from it. I am sure, historically, that the numbers will vary as they always do, and some years there will be more immigrants, and some years more emigrants.

Yes I have heard of emigration.And NO I dont portray the situation as a Jug being continually filled.If you had read my post you would have known that.Please refrain from putting words in others(my) mouths.I could also say please refrain from reporting people,but I wont.
The way I see the situation is......Any Tom dick and arry can come here,we are an easy touch. The British Public is expected to kiss every Immigrants arse,in one way or another,to the good of the Immigrant population and to the detriment of the British population.Our institutions and traditions are being watered down to favour the foreigner..Xmas for example,or Winter bloody holiday as some would have us call it now...to avoid offending our foreign friends..Positive discrimination in favour of ethnic minorities,which is of course discrimination AGAINST British Whites..A bloody disgrace! Thats but a few examples,there are,as we know many more.
The people who support the "Immigration is good-Mass Immigration is even better" road are in the main Labour Party stalwarts following the party line.Stalwarts ,who, if the partys policies did a complete U-turn and read "Immigration is bad" tommorrow,would change tack with it.The " Chameleon" effect.
T o hear someone on this thread using the fact that 3 Poles have become Peterborough United Football Club supporters as support for Immigration policies is amazing!The logic of the nuthouse ! Having said that,those 3 Poles must have doubled Peterboroughs fan base,which now consists of 3 poles,1Somali goatherder,A Karl Marx look alike.....and the redoubtable "b.s for all seasons" Limehouse.
Import the Immigrants we need,as regards skills,if we have no British counterparts.The rest? put the barriers up,we dont need them,and I suggest the majority dont want them(as we are never asked,we will never find out.)
Why dont people cut out the B.s and get to the point when discussing Immigration policy?

[babybird67]

Yes I have heard of emigration.And NO I dont portray the situation as a Jug being continually filled.If you had read my post you would have known that.Please refrain from putting words in others(my) mouths.I could also say please refrain from reporting people,but I wont.

Except you did. Idiot. And how many 'mouths' do you have? There certainly seems to be an extra one in your posterior area which you seem to spout from most of the time.

You really are stupid aren't you. Do you realise at all that Ally, whom you threatened to shoot, is part of the Admin of this site? Or are you that stupid? As I said to you in your response to your unsolicited pm from me accusing me of reporting your post, I DID NOT REPORT YOU. (Admin i would be grateful if you could clear this up for this idiot - many thanks) My response to your sad and ill-judged 'poetic' threat to commit mass murder on a site which discusses a serial killer was to post openly on the thread my advice to you which was not to give up your day job. I am getting heartily sick of you accusing me of things I haven't done. So kindly refrain.

The way I see the situation is......Any Tom dick and arry can come here,we are an easy touch.

Rubbish. I am a civil servant and deal with people who cannot get visas to stay here so we certainly don't hand them out like sweets.