EU Vote

[Wickerman]

I voted to remain. However the people have spoken and any talk of a second referendum is bullshit. I expect Britain to leave the EU as soon as possible.

Quite correct there will be no 2nd vote from Britain, but I took (perhaps mistook?) Robert to mean the rest of Europe should have their chance to vote just like Britain. From what I understand many ordinary European folk don't like what is being imposed on them by the EU elite.

There will, I think, be a 2nd vote for independence in Scotland.

[Graham]

As I understand it, the 'Common Market' was devised basically to prevent further war breaking out between continental European nations

Diplomatically put, Graham. I don't think they were too worried about the Belgians attacking the Dutch, or France attacking Luxembourg.

Ah, yes, well - in 1831 The Netherlands made an unsuccessful military invasion of Belgium which seceded from the United Kingdom Of The Netherlands in 1830. Known as the Belgian Revolution. (Your Majesty, the Belgians are revolting, kind of thing....). Britain declined to send in troops (unusually), but the French did and kicked the Dutch out of Belgium. I've got a (very) vague memory of seeing what I think was a memorial to those killed at a battle near Liege.

Graham

[Robert]

Hi Graham

As I recall, after the defeat of Napoleon the victorious Powers forced Belgium (which used to be called the Austrian Netherlands) and Holland to fuse together into one state, as an attempted bulwark against any future French expansion. The Belgians and Dutch didn't like it much. As compensation for giving up the Austrian Netherlands, Austria was given Venetia in northern Italy. I don't think the Venetians liked it much either.

[John Wheat]

Quite correct there will be no 2nd vote from Britain, but I took (perhaps mistook?) Robert to mean the rest of Europe should have their chance to vote just like Britain. From what I understand many ordinary European folk don't like what is being imposed on them by the EU elite.

There will, I think, be a 2nd vote for independence in Scotland.

Yes it's looking likely. If Scotland do leave Britain maybe the people of Wales and Northern Ireland will want a vote for independence too. It wouldn't surprise me if other countries in the EU will want a referendum as well.

Cheers John

[Elamarna]

Hi All

the scariest thing about all of this, and a response to the "that is democracy line," is the woman interviewed last night on the BBC.
Now while others interviewed gave their reasons for voting leave, this woman said " i don't know why i voted to leave, i just did." if not the exact words very close to.

When massive constitutional issues are decided on in that fashion, it makes it clear why often a a two thirds majority is needed for such changes. why there was not such a requirement here I cannot understand!

For a trades union to go on strike it takes more than 50% and to remove a government in the UK at present needs 2/3 of the house, it seems the government were so arrogant and sure of victory, they did not put this in place.

You could have had a situation where 1 side beat the other by JUST ONE vote, that cannot be right no matter which way you voted.


We will see over the following months the short sightedness or not of this decision.

By the way, don't rule out a 2nd vote 100%, while unlikely, it will be debated in Westminster next week.

steve

[Geddy2112]

By the way, don't rule out a 2nd vote 100%, while unlikely, it will be debated in Westminster next week.

Well if it's going to be debated by the Politicians next week it will sure to happen as most of them wanted to remain. I think the politicians are so scared they are actually going to have to some proper work for once and look after the interests of the UK and the UK only...

I'm often scared though walking around looking at folk and thinking my God they actually were allowed to vote..

[Mayerling]

I keep thinking that if Scotland is now requesting a second go at the independence referendum, out of a sense of fairness they should also ask for a special referendum for the northern isles of Scotland to vote if they wish to remain part of Scotland (technically "the kingdom of Scotland and the isles") or return to their previous owner, Denmark.

Jeff

[Robert]

I wouldn't have thought it likely. If it happens it will lead to a general election, since the tory brexiteers will side with the Labour Party and Scots Nats on all future House of Commons votes. There's nothing that concentrates an MP's mind like the possible loss of his job. Brussels would have to give the tory remainers mega bribes to get them to do that.

[Robert]

Interesting about this huge petition demanding a re-run. Why wasn't the petition launched before the referendum? After all, its signers knew the terms of the referendum. So why did they not protest before the voting?
Could it be that they smugly assumed they'd win?

Anyway, they've made it clear that if they don't get their own way, they'll scweam and scweam and scweam.

[Elamarna]

I wouldn't have thought it likely. If it happens it will lead to a general election, since the tory brexiteers will side with the Labour Party and Scots Nats on all future House of Commons votes. There's nothing that concentrates an MP's mind like the possible loss of his job. Brussels would have to give the tory remainers mega bribes to get them to do that.

Robert ,

while I agree it is highly unlikely, the petition will be discussed it has got more than 10x the number of signatories required, however I disagree with your assesment.

such a decsion would make any voting for it very unpopular in many areas, so they would not want a general election.

look at the makeup of the house it seems fairly clear:

The majority of Tories would not want a GE
The Labour party would certainly not want a general election,

The Scots Nats might want to bring independence forward, but not sure a GE would help there.

The Tory Brexiteers are in a very large minority.

Given that it needs a 2/3 vote now for a vote of no confidence there would be no general election this year, and probably not next.
You could see a vote of no confidence where only the outers and Scots Nats vote for it.
Because has you rightly point out the turkeys will not vote for xmas, so to speak.

my view, Unlikely but not impossible.

regards

steve

[Elamarna]

Interesting about this huge petition demanding a re-run. Why wasn't the petition launched before the referendum? After all, its signers knew the terms of the referendum. So why did they not protest before the voting?
Could it be that they smugly assumed they'd win?

Anyway, they've made it clear that if they don't get their own way, they'll scweam and scweam and scweam.

Robert


Agree entirely.
Arrogant to a degree that is unreal.

However it should be noted that Farage said before the vote that if leave lost by a few percent it was not over.

so seems both sides thinking the same.

steve

[Robert]

Hi Steve

I didn't see the Farage remark so I'm not sure if he was talking about an immediate referendum or just saying 'the fight will go on.'

You may be right on the MPs but what if the Brexiters help to vote down the budget?

[Elamarna]

Hi Steve

I didn't see the Farage remark so I'm not sure if he was talking about an immediate referendum or just saying 'the fight will go on.'

You may be right on the MPs but what if the Brexiters help to vote down the budget?

Robert,

Does it matter what he meant, if we are meant to accept the vote as final, it is final, the "fight" cannot go on.

The outers did not expect to win, and I seriously doubt they had really considered the outcome.

If Parliament went for a rerun (again i say unlikely) I am sure a deal would be done to ensure the budget was acceptable to both Labour and Tory.

In that event the 120 or so Brexiters would not have any effect even if the Scot Nats Joined them.

You would be looking at a split of the Tories just as deep as the Liberal one on Home Rule in the 19th Century. (one reason it is unlikely)

That could lead the 120 to renounce the whip and become UKIP MP's which of course is what many of them really are anyway.

regards

steve

[Robert]

Hi Steve

Why, of course the fight could go on - just as I expect the remainers to be campaigning in the years to come for us to rejoin the EU (assuming it still exists). Political decisions can be reversed. It doesn't annoy me that remainers remain remainers. What annoys me is that they want an immediate re-run, and on ad hoc objections - objections they never mentioned when they thought they were going to win.

[Elamarna]

Hi Robert

No you could never rejoin on the same terms, so that is a non starter to suggest you could rejoin.
For instance while I may have voted to remain, I would never vote to re-enter on a single currency.

I do not consider the objections to be ad hoc at all, I have been talking about it in local politics for the last year.

also the objections appear not to be coming from the political leaders, but from voters themselves.

but yes, they did not expect to lose. and that is the great mistake.


I suspect looking at the posts we were of different view points on this anyway.

I just hope that the country have not ignored the turkeys and voted for xmas,

Time will tell and we must wait.

steve