EU Vote

[Svensson]

It's a good job they never managed to organize their EU army in time. That army isn't intended to be used solely abroad.

Erm, okay. "European Army" was of course never planned and never existed. There are no and never were any EU statues referring to a "European Army", nor are there any committees within the EU working on the concept of a European Army.

You are, like many others of the Leave camp, creating an invention and then attack that invention.

[Svensson]

Another stroke of luck : we have the extremely well-informed Mr Albarn to enlighten us, and ensure that we won't be ill-informed next time.

I can't help noticing the irony of your previous comment about the European Army and this one here.

Goes to show, when the Mail and Express print something for long enough (even though it may not be true), sooner or later the headline becomes "fact".

[Robert]

The Albarn item was in the Daily Mirror, a left-wing pro-EU newspaper.

As for the EU army, here's an item from that horrible anti-EU newspaper the Guardian.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/08/jean-claude-juncker-calls-for-eu-army-european-commission-miltary

[Svensson]

These are tumultuous times but with them comes the opportunity to reclaim control of our own country. When the politicians are scrabbling around to pick up the pieces, I know my decision has been vindicated. They weren't expecting this to happen. They thought all the scaremongering and misinformation spread by the 'Remain' campaign would fool the British people. They were wrong and now must deal with the consequences.

Mr. D, the politicians are scrambling because they are duty-bound to do their job and serve their country. This vote should not have been score-settling with the political class, it should have been about deciding what is the best decision for the UK going forward. And trust me, it is Joe Average who will have to deal with the consequences, not the political class.

And btw, so far the predictions (or scaremongering) of the Remain campaign are correct but to me, that was never the issue. I always thought it was clear that the economy would take a short-term hit over this. The gamble on offer here is that there will be a long-term benefit for the UK or not.

And remember, you will be reliant on the political classes that you seem to despise so much to actually deliver a deal that with put the UK in a strong position. If you have no trust in the politicians, why hand over your yours and your children's future to them?

[Svensson]

The Albarn item was in the Daily Mirror, a left-wing pro-EU newspaper.

As for the EU army, here's an item from that horrible anti-EU newspaper the Guardian.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ission-miltary

It is an opinion by Mr. Junker. For a European Army to come into existence, the following would need to be done:

1. The Comission would need to suggest it (not an individual). The Comission has members of every single country, including the UK
2. The Council would then come up with draft legislation. The Council has members of every single country, including the UK.
3.The parliament would need to vote on it. the Parliament has members of every single European country including the UK.
4. IF the parliament agrees, then all 28 countries would need to ratify it. Including the UK.

None of the above had happened. Nor was the scope of the army ever decided as you had suggested.

[Svensson]

What exactly do you mean when you say 'rule'?

this wasn't consciously chosen with anything in mind. Just being the devil's advocate here.

[John Wheat]

It looks like Britain is out the EU for good. That's what the people voted for and that's what there gonna get. Wether it's good or bad remains to be seen. I think it will largely be bad. But there is no going back now and I don't see the point.

[Robert]

Call me a cynic, Svensson, but it's strange how things that the Germans want actually end up happening.

"We must get closer to the formation of a European army."

http://en.theeuropean.eu/franz-josef-jung--3/8280-european-army-a-vision-for-the-future

https://www.neweurope.eu/article/fianna-fail-promises-to-every-citizen-e188-per-week/

Now this might take a while to achieve. It would probably arrive step by imperceptible step, each step defended as a small step and perfectly reasonable.

[Robert]

The New Europe item seems to have refreshed itself. Google "Germany's Schaeuble wants European army."

[Svensson]

Is it Breitbart you are referring to?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breitbart_News

Please check the "notable invented stories" section. A common trait for populist news organisations. As far as Schäuble's comments go, it's on the same level as the "Turkey about to join EU" easter egg. Talk is cheap, and until this is actually going through the legislative of the EU or has been proposed by the Comission, it's not even worth talking about.

[Svensson]

Call me a cynic, Svensson, but it's strange how things that the Germans want actually end up happening.

"We must get closer to the formation of a European army."

http://en.theeuropean.eu/franz-josef-jung--3/8280-european-army-a-vision-for-the-future

https://www.neweurope.eu/article/fianna-fail-promises-to-every-citizen-e188-per-week/

Now this might take a while to achieve. It would probably arrive step by imperceptible step, each step defended as a small step and perfectly reasonable.

The Germans wanted to keep the D-Mark instead of adoption the Euro and they didn't get it. the EU, as with any relationship, is a give-and take. Some things you get, others you don't. What Farage and Co constantly fail to mention is that all the EU laws that were implemented in the UK were crafted in co-operation with all members including the UK and they have been ratified by all members, including the UK. In addition, the UK have opt-out powers. So the nothing that the EU does anything that the UK does not agree with is nonsense.

The world is changing. In the past, there were regional powers, (sometimes multiple ones on each continent) but with India, China and the US, the small regional powers of the past will just be gobbled up in their spheres of influence or even worse, used as pawns in whatever conflicts there will be in the second half of the 21st century and beyond. The Ukraine is a point in case for this scenario. I don't want to be living in such a pawn country by then, so Europe (in whatever form that may be) will need to be strong enough to protects its own interests and stability.

I don't think it's too far fetched that in 1000 year's time, there will be an earth army. No doubt, this will probably be under German leadership, if the Daily Express is to be believed.

The last part was a joke, btw.

[Wickerman]

It looks like Britain is out the EU for good. That's what the people voted for and that's what there gonna get. Wether it's good or bad remains to be seen. I think it will largely be bad. But there is no going back now and I don't see the point.

I was too distracted with other events in my life in the mid 70's, but wasn't this when Britain joined the EU?

How bad was life before we joined, I don't think it was bad at all, not the least that I can remember.

[Fleetwood Mac]

this wasn't consciously chosen with anything in mind. Just being the devil's advocate here.

So, there was no substance behind your point. That's fine.

As for Germany:

Germany will be the dominant partner in Europe whether they want that role or not. It is inevitable that the country with the strongest economy in Europe will play the lead role. This isn't an anti-German thing, in fact you'll find that of all the countries in Europe Germany is the one that garners the most respect in this country.

It is simply inevitable that such a country will take the lead role, and we have seen this in relation to Greece.

We don't want that. It could be Switzerland, France, Italy, Germany or whomever else; it's simply not for us. It's not healthy to have a highly centralised state governing over millions of people from disparate nations. In fact, it is a recipe for trouble.

We simply do not see it like you. Europeans tend to think such a centralised government is some gateway to world peace. We think the opposite.

[Robert]

Svensson, has it not occurred to you that arm-twisting goes on behind those closed doors? In any case, I don't trust our pro-EU leaders any more than I trust the EU, so either way we're better off out.

Are you sure there isn't anything in the Svensson marginalia about an EU army?

I see that the EU army isn't worth talking about because there's no point in looking that far ahead, but you're quite prepared to speculate on what will happen in the second half of this century, i.e. 2050 - 2100. What you say shakes me to the core. Cameron said we'd have World War Three if we left. It looks like we'll get World War Three if we stay. You can't safeguard peace by creating superpowers. All that you'll do is ensure that the wars, when they come, will make the Second World War look like a playground fight.

No, I haven't linked to Breitbart. This is the paper in question :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Europe_(newspaper)

Well, the Germans may eventually lead an earth army. Unfortunately they'll invade a supermassive black hole and get swallowed up.

[John Wheat]

I was too distracted with other events in my life in the mid 70's, but wasn't this when Britain joined the EU?

How bad was life before we joined, I don't think it was bad at all, not the least that I can remember.

To Wickerman

Are you saying we will be better off out the EU?

Cheers John